Kennebunkport Warning

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Re: Re:

Postby Wellsy » Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:00 pm

Teenr0cker wrote:US Revolution. ...

All very good reasons not to ever like America.
Huh?

You can have whatever opinion you like, but having a nation declare its independence from a monarchy to form a nation based on the progressive ideals of the day, to have that be a reason to hate a country? I thought we were supposed to applaud stuff like that if it happened today. Unless, of course, you're of the mindset that anything America does is a reason to not ever like it. I think the US is in the place now where she'll be hated no matter what she does. If she stays out of Darfur, she condones genocide. If she intervenes militarily, she is an imperialistic aggressor. If she trades with China, she's propping up a dictatorial regime and undermining native workers. If she doesn't trade with China, she must be racist, isolationist and xenophobic. Obviously the US has made awful domestic and foreign policy blunders, but now we're going to go all the way back to the nation's creation for reasons to bitch? Man, give me a break.
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Re: Kennebunkport Warning

Postby Greatchickenman » Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:46 pm

Though I agree with most of what your saying Wellsy, the American Revolution was anything but progressive. It's one of history's only conservative revolutions and was more an attempt to return to the status quo than incorporate new ideas.
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Re: Kennebunkport Warning

Postby Wellsy » Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:54 pm

I only meant "progressive" in the sense that "progressive" means not having a monarch and having some form of voice for the common citizenry. The French Revoloution could be viewed as a truly progressive revolution, and a messy one at that. Same with the Bolshevik Revolution or any of the Central American revolutions/coups.
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Re: Kennebunkport Warning

Postby Sling » Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:21 am

England still has a monarchy and we're alright. It's got worse now becuase: a)we're trying to follow/copy/be America and b)the new Labour government is just shit. They've actually managed to make British politics worse. I don't quite know how that's possible, but it just is.
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Re: Kennebunkport Warning

Postby Greatchickenman » Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:56 pm

Wellsy wrote:I only meant "progressive" in the sense that "progressive" means not having a monarch and having some form of voice for the common citizenry. The French Revoloution could be viewed as a truly progressive revolution, and a messy one at that. Same with the Bolshevik Revolution or any of the Central American revolutions/coups.


Parliament had all the power during that time anyway. The difference between the American Revolution and the others is that the others were to instill new ideas where the America Revolution was to fight against new policy.
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Re: Kennebunkport Warning

Postby Sarcasm » Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:57 pm

Wellsy wrote:I only meant "progressive" in the sense that "progressive" means not having a monarch and having some form of voice for the common citizenry. The French Revoloution could be viewed as a truly progressive revolution, and a messy one at that. Same with the Bolshevik Revolution or any of the Central American revolutions/coups.

Never heard of India/Greece, have you?
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Re: Kennebunkport Warning

Postby Wellsy » Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:54 pm

Sling wrote:England still has a monarchy and we're alright.
Not being British, I can't be sure of how powerful royal influence is within the realm, but it seems to me as an outsider that they have more of a ceremonial/cultural role than an administrative/legislative one. In other words, Queen Elizabeth II doesn't write law or enforce it. Granted her approval or displeasure undoubtedly carries a lot of weight, but Parliament seems to hold the day-to-day power of running the country.

Sarcasm wrote:Never heard of India/Greece, have you?
d00d wut r thez? :D

Just kidding, I assume you refer to the mostly bloodless revolution for independence led by Gandhi in India. I'm unsure of what you're referring to in Greece, there have been a couple coups, counter-coups, and civil wars in the twentieth century. I think, to further clarify myself, the several revolutions I referred to could be thought of as radical progressive revolutions.
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Re: Kennebunkport Warning

Postby Sarcasm » Sat Mar 15, 2008 4:46 am

I oppose the term, mostly, I was referring to Greece having a vastly superior democratic system long before USA's 'progressive' revolution, the world has been in regression (politically) for a long time now.

You vote for war? great, grab your spear as you are the one who will fight it.
You vote for the construction of X? you'll be paying for it.
You just hate that guy? propose to exile him.

You have absolute power, but responsibility comes with it, whatever you vote for, if chosen, will be performed/paid for by you and all others that voted for it.
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Re: Kennebunkport Warning

Postby Sling » Sat Mar 15, 2008 8:26 am

That sounds almost too awesome to be true. Then again if that system was implemented over here in the UK and US, then it would probably be abused by all the dumb-asses. A bit like it is today. Maybe if we deported all the chavs and other morons to the middle east that'd solve the majority of problems. Or maybe just conscript the lazy bastards into the army.

The monarchy of the UK is a constitutional monarchy, btw.
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Re: Kennebunkport Warning

Postby Greatchickenman » Sat Mar 15, 2008 9:59 am

Yeah and Greece hasn't been important since what, 400 BC?
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Re: Kennebunkport Warning

Postby Sarcasm » Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:34 am

Ancient Greece had a much greater effect upon the world as we know it then the USA,
The Byzantine Empire, or the Holy Roman Empire (well, you argue about the last one's contribution to architecture and engineering)

is is a coincidence that Greece has both changed its political system and ceased to be significant at about the same time?
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Re: Kennebunkport Warning

Postby Iorek » Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:53 pm

So, you guys have seen all the stuff on the news about how Iran is the "real threat" right...? Propaganda campaign foreseen.
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Re: Kennebunkport Warning

Postby Strayed Wanderer » Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:50 pm

Iorek wrote:So, you guys have seen all the stuff on the news about how Iran is the "real threat" right...? Propaganda campaign foreseen.


Yes, by pretty much everyone. I try not to point out the train when I'm already stopped at a railroad crossing.
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Re: Kennebunkport Warning

Postby War » Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:31 pm

The Byzantine Empire is one of the reasons there is a western civilization today. They toke most of the blunt force from the invading Muslims after the fall of the Romans.

I would say Rome in general though has influenced the civilizations of earth more then ancient Greeks. In a sense every government in the Western Civilization is a recreation of the Roman Republic in it roots.
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Re: Kennebunkport Warning

Postby Sling » Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:26 am

Damn Byzantines, stealing the Muslim's drugs. Anyway, it wasn't 'the Muslims', it was the Seljuk Turks, who had conquered and taken control of the Arabian Empire beforehand and advanced onto the Byzantine Empire. Anyway, long story short, emperor is afraid of Turks, calls in some help from The Pope, Pope sees this as a chance to take the 'Holy Lands' from 'the Muslims', Pope invents some story and sends lots of Crusaders in. Then we have The Crusades. Awesome. What was funny is that the Byzantine Empire got conquered anyway leaving The Pope two choices a)keep The Crusades going b)tell everbody the real reason you sent hordes of soldiers into the Middle East and tell everbody he lied.
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