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Postby Belthazar » Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:09 pm

RentACop wrote:Actually the organization did exist around the 1780's, but they fell apart once the government of Bavaria banned secret societies.

That sounds a lot like the mason group that actually controlled like the entire world. Apparently (according to my history teacher and i believe him cause he is really smart and cool) the presidents of the U.S. and just about every country uptil about the 1800's were a part of this society and they were the real group who had the whole world in the palm of their hands.
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Postby RentACop » Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:40 pm

Winnipeg wrote:Actually, I was referring to the modern rehash of the Organization which is, in fact a fictional organization. The organization you speak of did not control world finance considering it would be nearly impossible to do so in the 1780s.


This would be a valid response if I had said anywhere that the organization actually controlled anything (I mean, they fell apart because Bavaria came after them). The way you wrote the original made it sound like you think the entire thing is fake, when the fake part (unless I'm one of them?!?1!?) is like you said, the part where they control the world nowadays.

Belthasar wrote:That sounds a lot like the mason group that actually controlled like the entire world.

The Illuminati was made up of masons and former masons, but they didn't do much. While a surprising amount of powerful people have been masons, your professor seems a bit of a nut, I don't know about the whole controlling the world bit. Did he ever say why they still don't?
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Postby Belthazar » Tue Sep 13, 2005 4:21 pm

if i remember correctly i think he said they fell apart sometime in the mid 1800's. I just got this off google and i think this is the same masons my teacher was talking about. http://www.grandlodgeofvirginia.org/whomason.htm
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Postby Sage Of The Wise » Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:53 pm

I've read that Angels and Demons book by the Da Vinci Code guy, which talks alot abour the illuminati, but I haven't got a clue how much of it is actual fact besides that they did exist and were supposedly disband along time ago. And somthing about them secretly controling the Masons, always found that ironic.
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Postby DSOK » Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:19 pm

Sage Of The Wise wrote:I've read that Angels and Demons book by the Da Vinci Code guy, which talks alot abour the illuminati, but I haven't got a clue how much of it is actual fact...

Essentially, none.

Sage Of The Wise wrote:... besides that they did exist and were supposedly disband along time ago. And somthing about them secretly controling the Masons, always found that ironic.

From what I've seen, a more popular theory is that the masons are controlled by the Knights Templar. There are dozens of ridiculous books on this topic out now, many of them purporting to also name the location of the Holy Grail, which the Templars, then masons, then some Scotsmen in Canada, are supposed to have possessed.
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Postby fwacho » Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:14 pm

There is enoguh evidence out there to suggest that such an organization as the"illuminati" might exist. If you are wondering how.. just consider The federal reserve bank. a bunch of non-elected officials control the american economy by simply blinking or coughing a the right time. i'm sorry but that much power... "power corrupts and absolute power corupts absolutely" and, You all saw how people reacted in New Orleans. aka looters, snipers, Superdome. Let's just say I wasn't surprised... but I never have really expected much from a culture that focuses on self-help.

but engouh on that. Personally I've always seen evil as kind of a lesser good. (but you can read "strata down but not out" for more on that interesting discussion... that post really should be considered when discussing shadow swords.) somebody post a link after me becasue I don't really know how. (or am just too lazy to figure it out.)
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Postby Winnipeg » Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:24 am

This would be a valid response if I had said anywhere that the organization actually controlled anything (I mean, they fell apart because Bavaria came after them). The way you wrote the original made it sound like you think the entire thing is fake, when the fake part (unless I'm one of them?!?1!?) is like you said, the part where they control the world nowadays.


Yeah, except that the illuminati you're talking about has no relevance to the swords, does it? I mean, I chose the "fictional" version of the organization to show the duality of the word. The absolute light, and the absolute evil. A bunch of Masons and Ex-Masons that were taken out by Bavaria hardly seems like something that would be chosen for an allegorical or metaphorical facet of the game.

And Fwacho, very good point. I'd suggest that the Illuminati may exist in a slightly less played up sense. A secretive union of several large corporations would have emense power in the western world. Or better yet, a union between the government and large corporations. Both scenarios have already been pretty much proven to be true.
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Postby Non-Sequitur » Wed Sep 14, 2005 3:52 pm

fwacho wrote:but engouh on that. Personally I've always seen evil as kind of a lesser good. (but you can read "strata down but not out" for more on that interesting discussion... that post really should be considered when discussing shadow swords.) somebody post a link after me becasue I don't really know how. (or am just too lazy to figure it out.)

Here you go.
http://www.crestfallen.us/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=34732#34732
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Postby RentACop » Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:53 pm

Winnipeg wrote:Yeah, except that the illuminati you're talking about has no relevance to the swords, does it? I mean, I chose the "fictional" version of the organization to show the duality of the word. The absolute light, and the absolute evil.


I think I see what you're saying overall, but getting absolute evil from controlling the world is a bit of a stretch. You ever played Deus Ex?

fwacho wrote: If you are wondering how.. just consider The federal reserve bank. a bunch of non-elected officials control the american economy by simply blinking or coughing a the right time.


Heh, that's to a degree what the Knights Templar turned into, a network of bankers. Then Philip IV wanted money so he had the pope beaten to death and arrested the Templar and took their assets. Did the same thing to the jews. I will never understand people who think history is boring.
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Postby Belthazar » Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:05 am

History can be interesting but its pointless. They say we learn it so we wont make the same mistakes people of the past did. Well thats bull because we make the same mistakes each and every day.
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Postby DSOK » Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:40 am

I believe the quote is, "History teaches no lessons and punishes severely those who fail to learn them."
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Postby Winnipeg » Thu Sep 15, 2005 4:21 pm

I think I see what you're saying overall, but getting absolute evil from controlling the world is a bit of a stretch. You ever played Deus Ex?


No, can't say I have. But the Illuminati aren't really just a group who supposedly control the world, they do so by having large amount of money, and power of major corporations, which they then threaten major world powers with until they do their bidding. I'd say that's pretty evil
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