Episode 5 discussion

[HolsteinCow]

Leopold:
Welcome, come here to think about, talk about the story you got out of Episode 5.

Sinova:
We can talk about it now, right?

Yuri:
I was really impressed with it. The bit with Traziun going into the Inner Sanctum was awesome.

So many deaths though...

Apocalypsis
Well, we did get was was promised by the title.
Everyone did pretty much bleed...

So I suppose Cetsa will survive even though she was cut badly. Slade is dead, Lyrra is dead, a whole bunch of people are dead.

The questions right now are:

1: Who really killed Traziun's mother? Rhue as the Phantom Slasher? The real Phantom Slasher if it isn't Rhue, or perhaps the Pontifix Maximus? Or someone completely else?

2: Is Rhue really the Phantom Slasher? Then who is the shadowy figure, who returned the sword to him with all the new sword auras?

3: How do you like the new auras, which one is your favourite and what level do you have them at right now?

War:
We don't know and can't ever find out who killed Traziun's mother. We will have to wait for E6. There is no real way to make a Theroy or anything.

HolsteinCow:
1: I don't know.
2: That shadowy figure is also Rhue. He might have been "Cut in half" after he recieved the Shadow Sword.
3: I used Atmosphere(Sky Defensive Aura) and Aionsluh(Atomic Sword Aura)

Yuri:
1) Given Traziun's startlement, I think it would be either himself or Rhue. He doesn't know who the Pontifex is and I doubt seeing the Phantom Slasher do it would make him go "Lies!" He'd just be pissed.

2) I think he is. Actually, I think Rhue is not a real person at all. He's either dead or something else weirds. Gaius said himself that he and Rhue were not quite "like other Wanderers".

I think Rhue is the manifestation of a Wanderer who has passed on and the Phantom Slasher is perhaps his original aura? Remember what Jopaga said, the aura is like a shadow cast on the physical plain of the Way. The Shadow Sword probably has some hand in this Phantom Slasher then appearing at all. Perhaps it takes over an owner's aura to use it for evil purposes (like the Phantom Slasher killing people)? Was the shadow he fought in the Pits perhaps a manifestation of the other Shadow Sword they were looking for?

Thinking back of the previous episodes, I think Rhue takes over people's auras as he kills them and that that's why he gets flashbacks from *their* lives, but him replacing the person that he killed (Episode 3 when he is looking for Lyrra and Jeruh -- that is him as Jed). When he nearly killed Slade, and the sword had "grown" into him, he got a flashback from Slade's life.

Anyway, I think Gaius is the Pontifex. Just a hunch (though all my previous hunches were correct).

3) Hate them... but only because you get 4 of them instantly and have to start levelling them all up from zero.

Berserker:
The best sword aura is illuminati! 3 xl for turn => a lot of hurricane cut.

Somehow I think either Rhue or Gaius killed Traziun's mother,
even if Rhue seems more likely.

Anyway, it seems that noone of the character could be Serena...
Maybe she could be Schata's little sister?

Anyway, before of Ep5 I hated the Guided, now I hate them even more!

Leopold:
Some might say the Slade part was just stupid, though I think that was quite sad. The man had spent all his life doing what others wanted him to do, he was to much of a tool, a tool for a faceless evil. My little theory is that when he was on the mountain, he realised he really had no one who loved him, no one who cared for him, no family, no true friends, and no will of his own, and he was in deep pain. So, as he was standing over the cliff, he was thinking of the pain he had gotten in his life, all the men he had betrayed, all the lives he took, and he went insane, not crazy, he just lost his mind, he had nothing to fall on, he was hated in the guild, so he was suicidal, and when Kloe tried to help, he jumped. Then later at the bottem, when Cetsa tried to help, he Pushed(Cut) her away from saving his life, because Slade went crazy.

But that is just MY theory, so, what ever, also, Signature Slash and Trinity are good moves.

Nakoruru:
oh man... this empisode was too sad
why did so many die? ... lyrra, slade...and maybe cetsa(i hope not!!!)
it's a pitty...

morgalel:
I ve just noticed a detail while (re)playing the game today : the shadow sword of traziun's father ( ghost horror ) is the same that the one which is later at slade's side when he awakes and lyrra takes to defend herself .

the guilf2003:
1) Personally, I think that Gaius or Rhue killed Traziun's mother. However, we still don't know who Gaius and Rhue killed together (Episode 2, Gaius: "Doesn't he remember... the man we killed?").

2)Hmmm... After this Episode, I'm thinking that Gaius is the Phantom Slasher. In fact, I think that Gaius was lying about thw whole shadow sword thing, although why he would give Rhue the Sword, and then want it back, is beyond me. I believe the sword that Rhue carries is an Illuminati (Episode 2, knocking what I assume is a shadow sword into the pits, Episode 4, Cloaked man, "An illuminati can only harm evil" (or something like that) thus: Episode 5, not being able to kill the hooded figure, the Harbringer, who seemed to be a man of pure justice, Episode 5, knocking the shadow sword out of sight after Lyrra's death).

3)Illuminati would rock, if only I had found Hurricane cut / there were more XL abilities you could get in this episode. It's hit % is too low, so probably the shadow aura.

Fitz Tayo:
1 - Well, I personally think is was Rhue, just because I have this deep feeling it is.

2 - Well, I think the Rhue you play as, isn't the phantom Slasher, um this is one of my more complicated theories. I believe, that pontifex made the phantom slasher for whatever reason, and made it so it could absorb auras, so it would get stronger (Sortoff like in Jopaga's Lab with the rod, but he doesn't need a rod, or it's the shadow sword doing it.) And THe Phantom Slasher was at the Landorin massacre, and it killed Jeruh, and the scene at the river in Rhue's flashback is actually Jeruh. And Jeruh has a really strong Aura, and the phantom slasher, absorbed his aura, but Jeruh took his body and things and became him, but memories were muddled and things, and went searching for Serena. I'm unsure about the sword scene, and the reason the Phantom Slasher is following Rhue is because it wants it's body back, and it was gunna take it back at the end of EP 1, but it ran off, then it realised Rhue could absorb auras and would wait until Rhue is quite strong, then it would take it's body back and get all of Rhue's strength. Really quite complicated. I was thinking also that the Shadow Sword splits somebody in two, and the phantom slasher is the split rhue. That's why there were two people who gave Rhue the sword, they wanted to fuse and be normal, so they gave it to Rhue and he split, but this ties in with no other theories of mine so I disregarded it.

3) All of them are good, but I hate raising them from level 1, even if they are stronger than the others either way.

Fitz Tayo

Excell:
I despise Gaius. All I have to input right now.

Spirit Blade Freak:
I used Aionsluh only cus i was playing with the default save file, and that was the strongest one at level 1. All the new auras were at level 1, I skipped all of the enemies, as this wasn't my permanent strong file. The ending was worth all the loooong battles, while the part with Trazuin was another story.

[HolsteinCow]

Snapman:
1. I think it's either Rhue or Gaius. Probably Rhue. Traziun was closer to Rhue, which would explain his reaction, whereas if it was Gaius, I doubt he'd been as upset.

2. I haven't a clue who the Phantom Slasher is. It certainly has some affinity with Rhue, but I don't trust what Gaius says. He's one shifty mofo. Maybe it's Serena? I dunno. I just wouldn't go on Gaius' word.

3. Illuminati. Hurricane Cut ahoy!

Sinova:
What's up with Dirk and Scatha?

Matt Hakor:
Hmm well now we can eliminate Scatha being Serena since we now know she was Slade's sister. hmm...I think Kalmar recognized Rhue's sword because he muttered "Aubuta" I think that may be the name of the sword.

War:
OK so what I think by putting everything to gather.

1)Traziun: He was the first one to escape because his father who is one, of I think many Blana Sera, told he to do an impossible mission. He cahged his name so Trazium isn't his real name. When he couldn't figure out how to do it or just didn't want to he quite and his father and the rest of the Blana Sera went after him. Also there is no way to know who killed his mother in E5 or and E a this time.

2)Phatom Slasher: I think it is Rhue or Gaius.
Gaius- he is the second one to escape and was given the same mission. He didn't know how to do this ether so he just killed anyone who did something bad (that is why he doesn't kill children because there innocent).
Rhue- Well if he does have a shadow sword that is why he would be the PS. Everything else has already been talked about.

3) Also I like the fact that Slade died. It gave it more drama and I kind of knew he would died. He was that kin of "when is he going to died" person.

Yuri:
I'm just wondering, because I've noticed this come up in older threads, where does everyone get this "Illuminati" thing from? I don't remember it being mentioned in the game at any time and your quote from Episode 4 is unfamiliar to me as well. Did something change between betas and finals or something?

I find the entire Shadow Sword stuff to be a little too vaguely explained in the game, especially if it were to be pretty much the catalyst of the story. Also the "Headhunters can sense auras" theory I have no idea how people came up with that, it's certainly not mentioned in the game.

Just wondering where all these theories come from.

I think there are 2 things that will happen in Episode 6...

1) Rhue killed Lyrra and probably absorbed her aura, so he will likely see a "flashback" from her life and find out what really happened during the Landorin Massacre.

2) The Pontifex (which I'm guessing is Gaius) tells Rhue that Serena does not appear in the Book of Sermeot. Then he notes that she does not appear in the Book of Eve either. Or something like that.

One thing I do not like about the aura absorbing theory is that Rhue killed a ton of people by the end of Episode 5 (especially if he is the Phantom Slasher) so why is he only seeing flashbacks from some of them? And "they had the strongest auras" is not a good reason.

HolsteinCow:
Is it just me or did we face Midian in Episode 3 in the pits? And what happened to Estrana that made people's bodies go wH4k?

And by wH4k I mean semitransparent.

Berserker:
hmmm...
I have a new theory...
Dirk says that he's the closest thing to a forerunner. Now, after the end of the way, there's landorin. What if he was one of the person who gave the sword to rhue?
also, the person who rhue and gaius killed togheter could be traziun's mother...
Anyway, I'm expecting a really big plot twist in the next episode, because i can't figure how the story can go on now...

Meg Ryan:
All I can say is that this episode wasn't as great as the others.. I mean the end wasn't all that good with Gaius telling Rhue that he is the Phantom slasher.. That's impossible since the Phantom slasher has saved Rhue many times and it's pretty unlikely that they are just split's from each other. Oh well, I hope Episode 6 explains a whole bunch of crazy stuff

the guilf2003:
The "headhunters sensing auras" theory makes sense if you believe that Rhue killed Midian. It's not that far-fetched, given everything that's already happened.

In Episode 4, when you get the chance to walk around the outer city (think it's at night), then, at the bottome part of the outer city, there is a hooded figure in one of the back alleys. This hooded figure is the same sprite as the harbringer (if I remember correctly), and tells you about the Illuminati and Shadows swords.


One thing I just thought of is the dream sequence in E2 when Little Rhue and Serena are running to the river. Is it possible that this was a premonition of the event with Gaius, but since Rhue had a muddled-up aura, he put himself and Serena there? REAAALLLYYY far-fetched, but it could explain some stuff.

In addition, Rhue recalled 2 people giving him his sword after Serena was swept into the river. Since Rhue has a muddled aura, one of these two shadowy figures could have BEEN Rhue. Gaius and Rhue perhaps? Although it would be hard to find reasoning for that. To give a small child a sword, and let him leave, only to kill him later. Unless... the child had the sword. They killed him and took it from him, and Rhue absorbed his aura and filled in his life after that?

Argh, most of that was too "out there". Still, I guess any twist is possible.

Guest:
Yeah, I believe Rhue killed Midian (or at least absorbed his aura), but I just found it odd how you guys came up with "aura sensing", since it isn't mentioned in the game, IIRC

You're right, I didn't know that. Funny, I've played through E4 quite some times now and I've missed this each time, heh.

So if Rhue has a Shadow Sword, and they are the opposite of Illuminati, then the reason he can't hit the Harbringer would be because he is totally evil. Doesn't make sense, as the Harbringer kills Entrego. So either Gaius is lying and Rhue has an Illuminati, or ... Would the Harbringer be Gaius?

the guilf2003:
No, what I was saying was that Gaius was lying, and Rhue has an Illuminati, thus he couldn't hit the Harbringer as he was a complete thing of justice. I believe that Gaius has just been trying to manipulate Rhue since the Phantom Slasher gave him the illuminati.

Excell:
I think that Gaius is deceiving everyone. Also, don't presume to know anything, including the absorbtion of auras with Rhue. There is a probably a lot more behind it then we think. If I remember correctly, I though Gaius might've been the Harbinger.

Iteroth:
Yeah, this sure was an interesting episode. A whole lot was revealed, but in such a way as to make us second guess ourselves.

I was kind of surprised with Scatha's relationship with Slade.

When Cetsa tells Rhue that she is Serena, I saw it coming but didn't believe it.

Gaius, Rhue, and the Phantom Slasher. Hmm. I'm not surprised that Rhue is the Phantom Slasher, but there is definately a catch. The whole returning to Landorin was a little odd, and I can't wait for it to be explained in the next episode.

Yeah, mostly I'm confused. I don't like to theorize with stuff like this, but my mind is racing.

[HolsteinCow]

Excell:
I think that might be true also. It kinda clicked for me right after the Traziun being pissed off event. I don't really know though.....and I'm not gonna presume I'm right.

aarn321:
I think that might be true also. It kinda clicked for me right after the Traziun being pissed off event. I don't really know though.....and I'm not gonna presume I'm right.

Akirru
I am PRETTY sure Rhue and Gaius killed Traziun's mother.

I mean, Gaius said that Rhue and him once killed soemone together, and, as.. uhh.. one of you said, Traziun's action would make you believe it is them also...

EDIT ABOUT RHUE BEING THE PHANTOM SLASHER:
Ok, Rhue probably is the phantom slasher, they aren't TWO seperate beings, Rhue just thinks he is seeing the phantom slasher, but is actually seeing himself through like a mirror of his thoughts.

What I find so cool about Rhue being the phantom slasher is the first people he kills in the tent in EP1, just thinking that was him is so cool=)

Leopold:
So that explains why the Slasher freed him from the Prisen and gave himmthe sword back from Slade's arm?

Chaosbringer:
Well, I was pretty right in my assupmtion that this Episode was goning ask more questions then it answered.

1. Are we sure that Gaius said man when he was talking about Him and Rhue killing a person, because if so, that means that Trazuin is adopted by a Gay couple or The Way dosent follow standerd human mechanics.

2. Gaius is the Phantom Slasher, no doubts about it, Proof = Guided Rebal camp -> alot of Guided Rebals dead -> Gaius in Cave nearby -> Scene showing Phantom Slashers killing them = Gaius is the Phantom Slasher

Now why did Gaius give Rhue his sword back?, I dont know, maybe because to use the full power Rhue has to give it to him?

Thats just some of my Half-Baked ideas,

Chaosbringer

Berserker:
but if gaius is the phantom slasher, what would be his reason to kill all those people? i think he's the harbinger, however.

Guest:
Interestingly, the same charset is used for the Harbringer and the guy at the Blood Lyn camp. It's part of Gaius' charset...

Guest 2:
A lot of things got their explanation (especially in the end )
And there was lots of cool scenes and other things.. but it was to short in my opinion... or maybe im just do damn good

anyways i cant wait for way 6 to arrive

i want answers to the new questions...

Dirk:
... obviously too much to speculate on, but heh... why not?

the people in the funked up state (ghost appearances in the city) seemed to be related to Rhue's past killings... lixe they're all in there with him. midian and rhue are extremly related, but so again was lyras father.so wos thot place the resting place of those killed by rhue's sword? maybe he got to go there because his own blood was on his sword just prior to the experience?

i also noticed how everytime rhue is seperated from his conscious self, the PS seems to be able to move about.

also, i'm sure shadow swords battle it out between themselves too... so all the sword hitting throughout the game can't be used to show thot rhue definately has the illuminati....

i dunno... lyraa could've been who midion wos searching for and that ouro just was passed on to rhue... pff... now i'm just speculating... heh... i guess i've been doing that anyway:)

... i just had an idea... if gaius is such a judge.. a harbringer etc... and he sensed kloe's evil... he'll be forced to kill her soon enough...

Alkaline:
I have a theory about the end of the way. What you see in episode 5 at the end... The End of the Way, that's not the End of the Way. If you pay attention to what Scatha and Dirk said at the Blood Lyn Battle Grounds, Dirk says "Tetzel killed Eyashu because Eyashu knew the truth about the End of the Way." So it may actually be something else.

I don't think Gaius was lying either. Maybe he's just following Rhue because he wants to defeat the Phantom Slasher.

Also, the "dead" Estrana in Rhue's dreams is like Wanderer heaven. They're all dead, including Jed (obviously) and Midian. In the second dream sequence, Rhue meets a girl outside of Estrana. I think that may be Serena. We might see Lyrra and Slade there in the future.

Actually Dirk's right, they're all related to Rhue's past killings. Blue Scarves, Jed, I think I even saw a transparent Lexus in the map editor.

But that girl at the gate might've been Serena, which means Rhue killed her. I wouldn't be surprised o_O

Ardus:
I think that Traziun's mother was the "person" that Gaius and Rhue killed.

Rhue can't be the "second" person to escape the Blood Lyn, it has already been revealed that it was Gaius. First with Traziun telling Kloe on the balcony that he was in Estrana. Second with Kloe's conversation with Gaius in Estrana, revealing that he was her partner that ran away.

I also believe that Gaius has been lying about everything to Rhue. First of all, I think his sword is an Illuminati, not a shadow sword. Secondly, I think Gaius is trying to confuse Rhue by telling him he is the phantom slasher when in reality Gaius is.

Another farfetched theory I have is that Kloe is "Serena," or the closest thing there is to one. She is the right age, the same age as Rhue, she has no family, and plus, you find out in her conversation with Traziun that he pulled her out of a river, saving her life...

Impossible:
Lyrra, maybe. Slade... Well, Rhue didn't kill him, and he probably wasn't actually in front of Slade at the exact time he died.
It was sort of unfair that just as that bitch Cetsa was trying to do something good, she was killed (or at least, she's probably dead).

And I don't think that was wanderer heaven or anything, the othe rtheory makes more sense. It seemed like they were all people Rhue (and possibly the PS) killed. And how would Rhue have gotten there otherwise? He fell asleep in the Blana Sera Temple, and he was there.

Ardus:
Wow, I just realized that is so true...inspires me to make a new farfetched theory.
I think those two people in the forest on Landorin stretch were Pontifex whoever and another person who hasn't been revealed yet. What I think happened is that those wolves killed all the little kids and everything and then the Pontifex and whoever else found Jeruh's dead body(Yeah, I think Rhue was killed by those wolves in his flashback, wolves dont just walk away from a unconsious body) and did something to it to raise him back to life as a new creature that took the auras of everyone he sees die and make him lose most of his memories of his life before that night while making him think his name was Rhue instead of jeRUH. They also gave him his Illuminati that night... Then they sent him along the way with subconscious instructions to kill the certain people they wanted killed as the phantom slasher. This way Rhue could be the Pontifex's secret weapon, killing all of his targets, and growing stronger from their auras with each kill.
So when Rhue gets to the dream destroyed Estrana world or whatever he sees all of the people's auras that he has absorbed. And notice how Jopaga's formula made people lose their personalities when their aura was gone? That probably means that the auras are like their personalities, which Rhue is conversing with in the dream estrana.
The reason he has so much now and they take form in estrana is probably because he was in Estrana when it was destroyed and he absorbed all of those auras of the bodies he walked by, but they weren't Lyn, so he didn't gain any battle abilities from them.
Yeah...

Leopold:
I dunno, who knows, this "Wanderers Heaven" or "F^~!!ed up Estrana" Might be the Upper Way.

[HolsteinCow]

War:
The dead city is just all the people who died there. I do not think that was Serena at the gate. if you read my first post here you woukld read why Gaius would kill all the people. Also i'm still going by that there isn't enough info to figur out who kill Traz's mother.

Impossible:
That's a mostly great theory, Ardus... But we can't know anything for sure yet.

Sinova:
Why is it that Lexus isn't in dead city? Could it be she is still alive?

fwacho:
You're on to something. you need to ask a and answer a few why questions and you'll be getting close.

you're close, real close

Dude you're on to something... keep kicking teh idea around with the other posters. between you all you're getting close to the truth... just no one has even half of it yet.

also think about anotehr city that was similar to estrana...

Sinova:
Janwen - A city of legend that many believe was burned to the ground because it was so evil. Wanderers refer to this event when they use curses such as, "Flaming fires!" or "Flaming fires of Janwen!". Janwen is THE most highly studied historical city of old.

Leopold:
I'm still thinking that Slade's death will cause a big event in the story, What with Slade's dead body laying there, and Cetsa's Blood on the ground, and Rhue's foot prints beside him, it could cause the Vigilante Guild to kill soem people...

Alkaline:
Hmm, I doubt wolves attacked Landorin. Taht was just in Rhue and Lyrra's stories, but Jed said there were no tracks or anything. Maybe it was a spell?

Also in the Kloe/Cetsa memory where they were fighting, I wasn't sure but I'm pretty sure that neither is Serena's sprite. And I doubt that was in Landorin because Lyrra was the only known survivor other than Rhue. If it was I still doubt one of them was Serena.

Or they could all be survivors of Landorin o_O Rhue, Gaius (who caused the massacre?) Cetsa, Lexus, Scatha, Slade, Strata, Lyrra... although that's probably not true at all. It COULD work, but it'd be a pretty weird twist anyway.

Yuri:
Well, we have to remember they always say that Lyrra is the only KNOWN survivor.

I wonder what the other "horrific event" that occured at Landorin was.

Impossible:
Lexus is in the dead city, on the roof of (I think) Sacrifa's house.

I still think that the headhunter in E1 could have been Midian with a whole lot of hair gel. But then, who was Rhue fighting in the pits in E3? It matches up with Midian... Was that just Lun being lazy looking for sprites, or are they connected? But the E3 guy is in the Phantom Slasher's charset... Gah, I'm reading too far into this and confusing the hell out of myself. >_>

Rhue could quite possibly have an Illuminati... Presumably, judging by what that guy in E4 said, they can't harm those who shouldn't die by the will of the Purpose... Rhue couldn't kill the Harbringer. But maybe the Harbringer is Gaius, and Gaius is bad, and Rhue has a Shadow Sword. I just KNOW, the missing piece of the puzzle can be found a bit faster if we knew the names of the Illuminati or Shadow Swords... And I KNOW that somewhere, in one episode of The Way, there was something (a booshelf, I think) which listed the Illuminati's names. But WHERE is it, dammit?! >_<

Yuri:
It's in E4, Rhue's 2nd room.

There's a book here about the
Illuminati, The Swords of
Justice.

Apparently they even had specific
names. Only a few are listed
here.

Revalzo, Aldebaran, Arctura,
Betelgeuse, Fomalhaut, Venturi,
and Regulus.

I only know from Episode 5:

Night Reaper - Traziun
Ghost Horror - Kalmar
Aubuta - Rhue?
??? - Slade (Lexus?)

Interesting, they're almost all names of the alpha stars of certain constellations.

Aldebaran - Taurus
Betelgeuse - Orion
Regulus - Leo
Arcturus - Bootes
Fomalhaut - Piscis Austrinus

Maybe it means nothing. I can't find anything on Venturi and Revalzo, anyway.

Berserker:
at the end of cetsa/kloe flashback, there's the sound of someone falling in a river. I think that's how kloe ended being saved by traziun.
it's ironic how the guided, which wanted to prevent another janwen, caused it.
maybe the two person in rhue's flashback were eyashu and tetzel...
but i wonder how scatha got to know them.
I think the upper way is the place where traziun fought his father.

Yuri:
Who is Eyashu anyway?

I meant Lyrra. (I think Lyrra took Slade's sword after she ran from the Blood Lyn.)

[HolsteinCow]

the guilf2003:
I'm standing by my theory that Serena doesn't exist. This, of course, implies some pretty odd theories, as Rhue has such a strong desire to find her.

I think that she is a myth conjured up to control Rhue (possibly by denizens of the upper way?). We've seen that he'll go through anyone to get to her, but his movements seem kind of chaotic. I believe that the phantom slasher is keeping Rhue going in the right direction, making sure that there's always trouble behind him.

Impossible:
Well then, maybe Rhue does have a Shadow Sword... The book didn't necesserily list ALL of the Illuminati, but now it's more likely to be Shadow Sword. The name Aubuta doesn't fit the pattern, does it?

Excell:
What pattern?

Akirru:
Sorry, haven't been on in a while, anyways, to Leopold.

Ok, ever notice how Rhue goes crazy when he is the Phantom Slaher? He seems a tad bit stronger than usual...
And when he got the sword from Slade, that was him getting it out, wen't to that spot and put the sword in his sheath =P

EDIT:
Hmm, I've been thinking about Gaius as the phantom slasher.
Now, you guys have all been puzzled about him giving the shadow sword (or illuminate) to Rhue again... maybe it isn't REALLY Rhues old sword? And that's why rhue got the new abilities NOW and not from when he had his old sword... oh wait, that doesn't make sense because the Harbringer part was before he got the sword back from Sladee (or the other sword).


Or MAYBE he used to have an illuminate and that's why he couldn't harm the harbringer, and Gaius gave him the shadow sword, maybe as a test?
Or maybe.. wait I forgot what I was just about to say, meh, screw that

Impossible:
Excell hasn't been paying attention...

Alkaline:
btw, in Episode 4, during the rainy night when you can fight Rosmar, there's a part where you can see Lexus's ghost. She runs away upon notice (it's next to a CTP Sprout I believe). I wonder if that has any significance to the future of the game, or if Rhue was just hallucinating. Probably nothing to the story.

What happened to those sprouts anyway?

I also wonder how Episode 5 will start. Either Rhue will charge at Gaius in hopes of slaughtering him (good ol' Rhue) or he starts talking to himself/dreaming again, taken somewhere else. Maybe him and Gaius fight... I dunno. There're still two or more episodes to go, and we have no idea who the main villain of the story is. Sacrifa? He doesn't seem all that strong anyway, just pissed off at the death of Lilah. He doesn't seem all that powerful anyway, even though he CAN summon Pits monsters. And the Phantom Slasher seems to Rhue's "friend" unless Gaius was telling the truth (which I think he is, Lun wouldn't end the episode with a lie, but then again, it's Lun and you never know what he has up his sleeve).

Impossible:
BEWARE, LONG POST AHEAD - Please take the time to read it.

Yes, everyone knows about the Lexus ghost. You can see it in three places, plus in the stadium at the end of E4 when the camera is panning around in circles.

Yeah, we've all been coming up with these theories as to what will happen in E6, but what about what's gonna happen as soon as it starts? That's where I'm lost. (You accidentally said E5, by the way, you should probably edit that to 6) At the moment, nobody seems to believe Rhue is the PS, but why would Lun end an episode with such a big lie (two of them if Rhue doesn't have a Shadow Sword)? Although, Lun IS a big headfucker. He fucks with our heads. >_<

Sacrifa is dead, the PS killed him. The final battle will likely be against Traziun, Gaius, the PS (even if it is Rhue, maybe he'll somehow fight it), or... well, who knows? It could be someone we haven't met yet, too. It could be Serena! >_> BTW, the only potential Serena left that we've met is Kloe, but that's VERY unlikely - the being pulled from a river by Traz was probably just after the Kloe and Cetsa flashback, assuming she was pushed in the river then.

I just hope Lun has a good ending ready. I don't want a massively open-ended neverending cliffhanger ending, but I want it to make me think. I hope it'll leave me with questions, just not massive ones which could affect what would happen after the game ends. I'm sure Lun knows what he's doing, though.

As for Rhue's sword... Is it Shadow or Illuminati? The Illuminati can only hurt those who are bad, and willed to die by the Purpose. Which means that if Rhue has an Illuminati, he was quite possibly given it by Teztel, for him to be the PS and kill bad people/Purpose unbelievers. A guy in E2 said that everyone killed by the PS had something in common... But then, what about Lyrra? How could Rhue hurt her? Because she had what was actually quite possibly a Shadow Sword when she went nuts chasing Strata? Did that make her killable by the Illuminati? What about the Harbringer (Gaius?)? Is he good or bad? Rhue couldn't kill him...

The apparent name of Rhue's sword; Aubuta, isn't in the Illuminati book, but that doesn't DEFINITELY mean it's not an Illuminati... But still, it makes a Shadow Sword seem more likely. Aubuta doesn't really sound like an Illuminati name... Maybe Teztel had something to due with Rhue receiving his sword; whether it's Shadow or Illuminati.

When I saw Estrana's destruction I thought, maybe... Maybe that was what happened to Janwen. Maybe Janwen plays a part in this; maybe this has all happened before. What do we really know about Janwen, though? It burned down. What else...?

Flaming fires of Estrana, this is too hard.

Maybe I'll do some Serena theorizing later.

And something else I was wondering that fwacho could probably answer... What exactly is a headhunter? Just some kind of ninja or mercenary or something?

Yuri:
That's what I've been wondering. It is not explained well enough in the game or the WGB. All I know is that, except for the 2 headhunters you meet on bridges, they NEVER talk to you. It's always "..."

Impossible:
Yeah, Lun should probably add them to the WGB.

morgalel:
it seems to me that ghost horror is also slade/lyrra s sword : indeed slade still has a sword after lyrra takes the one in the hospital room and kalmar just before he dies says something about ghost horror "going to another" ( and the sword picture "event" in the scene with slade awaking in the hospital is "GHOST HORROR")

Trihan:
I noticed that too. Ghost Horror is the sword Lyrra picks up when she runs into the room being chased by a Blood Lyn.

Guest:
Has anyone noticed that there is a MIDI titled Abuta? Not quite Aubuta, but still...

Excell:
Paying attention to what....the forums? If it's the forums I probably just overlooked something. If it's the game I haven't played Ep1-4 in around 5 months and I rushed through Ep5 once to get my report back to Lun. So if it's in the games it's been too long for me to remember anything.

And where was the book with the sword names at again?

Skarn:
I have a strange theory about the End of the Way... Maybe the Way is not a "Way", a line. Maybe it's a circle, an endless path which returns to its origin: "The End of the Way - Many are beginning to believe that the end of the Way is very close. Rumors are beginning to spread that the first wanderer to reach it's end will become all powerful. They will in a sense become the new Purpose. Others believe there is no end, and that the Way continues on endlessly" (WGB).
If you go further, maybe the Way itself is no more than a metaphor of someone's "way" to find his inner self, to evolve. (There's a word describing this philosophical term, that the world is nothing more than a creation of your own will. But I can't remeber it -_-")
So, to achieve his own "destiny", maybe Rhue has to return where all started... ("The Alpha and the Omega, The beginning and the End..." Ever played Xenogears? )

I came to this theory when I saw more and more "mystic" (well, it's not the proper term, but I don't have anything else) elements along the Way - especially these strange flashbacks which were all related to the people's minds. Maybe is it only a dream. Maybe is it only me who is dreaming of this weird stuff, of course

Well, my opinion of Episode 5: GREAT ONE. Very good plot. Scatha inside, so it cannot be bad. All these deaths at the end gives an atmosphere of... Well... I can't describe it, but it's very dark and moving. But... Some of the fights were real hard (especially these ***ing green pigs with their rush attack)...

(Thanks for this theory about Midian being this strange hairy guy in the Abyss. I would have tortured my mind for hours to recall where I saw this guy without its help)

[HolsteinCow]

abcde:
Serena doesn't exist and is simply Rhue's "purpose" to keep him running along the way, taking out various people as the Phantom slasher. Maybe.



A few questions:

Isn't it a bit weird that Rhue didn't get a flashback or Auras from 'killing' Lyrra or Lexus?

What was the link between PS victims? Maybe I just missed it...

Thanatos:
Ever notice how Rhue usually gets the choice of doing the right thing or the wrong thing in most situations? It might not be as simple as saying he either has an Illuminati or a Shadow Sword. It actually might be dependent on how you played Rhue the entire game.

However, I find it extremely unlikely that Rhue actually has a Shadow Sword because he knocked away a Shadow Sword in E2 almost like his own sword was making him do it.

Impossible:
But Rhue must have had Midian's aura before E3, because the headhunter in E2 sensed it... Maybe what happened in E3 was the aura somehow escaping temporarily?

Ardus:
Great point. What I think is that either Rhue has an illuminati and that they make the wielder (Rhue) have an inborn desire to keep the power of the shadow swords out of the wrong hands(maybe they were created in reaction to wielders of the shadow swords going on a rampage). Or that Rhue has a Shadow Sword, and the shadow sword made the wielder knock the shadow sword down the cliff in reaction to finding another one. (They were created to fight each other)

Either way it seemed to me like the two swords were definitely reacting to each other.

Guest:
Hey y'all!

I've been playing "The Way since just after the release of the fourth episode (and waiting in agony for the fifth), I rarely comment on mesage boards, but I've been reading all the talk and thought I had to offer up my own theories! So here it goes:

I think Rhue's got an Illuminati sword and Gaius has a shadow sword (yeah, I know, so do a lot of y'all, but bare with me here). I think it sorta ends there, though... I don't think Gaius is the Pontifix ( yike's I know I mispelled that) but some how got involved with yet another, as yet unrevealed, faction in the political knot of "The Way," one that is possibly influenced by the Potifix-ideal.

While Estrana was pretty eye-opeing regarding the incredible and rich world that the games' author has created, I don't imagine for a minute that everything's been revealed to us. Gaius and Rhue clearly have a history together, but I don't think the Gaius we met in the second episode is really the same Gaius we've seen since the third... whether physically or psychologically, or both. My bet is on Gaius as the Phantom Slasher, though, and that the Phantom Slasher is clearly carrying a shadow sword; everyone killed by the Phantom Slasher has been fairly friendly and seemingly innocent, after all (if memory serves me correctly). In the same vein, Rhue, who kills a bit impulsively, has yet to attack anyone who didn't mean him harm in some way and who is, therefore, on some level "evil."

Perhaps Rhue and "Whoever-may-be-the-Phantom-Slasher" are working together as the one "Phantom Slasher" we occasionally see mauling people in the episodes, though... Lun, the author, has done nothing if not brilliantly blurred the lines between good and evil in these characters; even the most stoic of the many heroines killed her lover and benefactor in an act of jealousy/desperation/simple need for attention (Khloe). In fact, the only blatently stated allusions to "good" and "evil" come from the references to the Illuminati(s) and the Shadow Sword(s). While the player often has the chance to choose Rhue's responce to violence and peace, the optional responces in these situations rarely satisfy the American's ideal need for clear-cut goodness and evil.

Did Rhue kill the (up until now) indominable Traziun's mother? Did Gaius? While timelines clearly and simply say "no," sadly, there is hardly room to balk at the idea that one or both did, whether knowingly or not. The player simply doesn't have enough facts to absolutely believe Rhue did the dirty deed, so to speak, while at the same time, the only character Traziun is really close to is Rhue, and thus his clear frustration when the killer is revealed. On the other hand, Traziun's father has now been "absorbed" into his psyche, and may be manipulating the situation from beyond the grave, so to speak... and therefore may truely (still?) be feeding him lies that suddenly take on a new reality to the young Traziun, who's spirit may not have fully developed to the level his fighting skills have.

And, in saying, we have the simple, and so far, completely far-fetched idea that Rhue is not Rhue... That the sword he has, whether of the Shadow or Illuminati variety, simply goes about killing people and absorbing them- that those souls, be they whispers or powerfull forces, are left to forever inflict those who weild the fatal blade. Was a child murdered by the man now known as Rhue? A child so fascinated and devoted to his playmate, Serena, that his very dominate soul now has possesed the body of his weak-willed assualtant? The memories Rhue relates to other characters involve beasts devouring children, while the only proof points to human footprints, and the beasts seem have sprung from the over-imaginative Lyrra's stories.

Who is Serena? I've read a lot of well-backed-up specualtion, but there are always faults. Scatha is harldy a suspect; her history lies with Slade (althougth I once placed my bets on this mysterious Princess of the Pits). Regardless, Scatha claims to "know the girl," not "be the girl," and her character tends to speak bluntly rather than in terms of Dancing Violet's riddles. The Bandit Queen herself is also ruled out due to self admisson. Lexus, although my favorite lady on the way, seems to be no better than permantly dead and her linaege deosn't add up to the stories of Rhue's past. Khloe's heart lies elsewhere, and, knowing such plot points rarely detour this type of well-rounded story-telling, she's still in the race, it seems. Finally, Lyrra seems the most obvious, but something doesn't ring true with the idea... dead or not, she has/had an underlying darkside like the "dame" in a classic film noir.

I said I had theories, didn't I? Sorry about that, I guess all this wanderer had was a pocketful of observations- observations that lead onward to nothing, everything that could be, could have been, and will ultimately be wrong. We players have a brilliant author and game maker on our hands, though... We've been given a world that is at once light and dark, good and evil, full of living that are already dead and dead that live on with every nuance of emotion of reality...

I will say this: In soap operas and melodramas those who die rarely stay dead and a surprise waits around every corner. Expect the unexpected yet... I think the best is yet to come!

Impossible:
Chasta
Scatha

Rhue
Jeruh

Minus the J, could it be the same anagram-y connection?

Why yes, Trihan, I DO like stealing theories without credit.

Also, Rhue's attack on the Shadow Sword in E2 is interesting... You'd think that would increase the chances of it being an Illuminati. So far, we have a major hint to it being an Illuminati, and a major hint ot it being a Shadow Sword. >_< This is confusing.

Skarn:
I found a very strange thing in Estrana, after "you know what". Close to Dirk, there are Zedicus' family tombstones. In Ep. 4, there was only one, Zedicus' wife stone. Now, there are two more: Zedicus and... Lexus. I checked the Lexus one, and there appears to be NO trigger to this event (like a "Lexus Killed" switch).
So, even if you don't kill her in Ep. 4, is Lexus going to die anyway (killed by a monster or during the earthquake)? Or is it just a trick, is she still alive? And when Rhue killed her in Ep. 4... Did he really KILLED or just wounded her? (Remember, he didn't check the body)
And there's this strange Lexus ghost on the roof of Sacrifa's house, again with no trigger...

Berserker:
in ep4 you HAVE to kill her. even if you have the max relashionship, you'll kill her anyway.

Thanatos:
I failed to find Lexus' ghost in the 'dead Estrana' anywhere, without going into the RM2K editor. Yes, I do see it when I opened the map, along with the guard who says that there's a meeting going on... which there clearly isn't. Not to mention, there is no way to even reach the guard. I think too much stock is being put in Lexus' ghost being on the roof.

Also, Rhue didn't kill Slade when shared Slade's flashback. He merely injured him. If all you need is to injure someone, then he should've gotten something from Rosmar as well, for slashing his face pretty good.

Also, if Rhue just automatically shares someone's aura for killing them... then he should've gotten TONS of flashback for all the people the Phantom Slasher killed assuming he is the Phantom Slasher at all.

I'm also beginning to question whether the Phantom Slasher is evil at all... He doesn't kill any children... Just adults. Maybe the Phantom Slasher is killing everyone who he deems evil. Kind of an apocalyptic angel of death or something. Purging the way one wanderer at a time.

Oh, hee hee, I just thought about how funny the situation is... I'm sure I'm just reading way too much into this, but I find it funny how Landorin, all the poor children were massacred by unknown beasts or men. Yet now, the Phantom Slasher is killing all the adults. Heh, and the reason it isn't killing Rhue is because he's a child from Landorin.

Yeah, I know, reading way too much into it there, but I still find it funny.

Also, I'm still a little curious about the phantom Rhue fought in Slade's mind...

BMZ:
Rhue should get more stuff for the people the PS killed, hmm? Did that not happen in Episode 5? He shows up and BAM! New sword styles.

You know, Rhue's sword...I'm wondering if its homage to the Lord of the Rings (well, probably not intentionally, but I like comparing games to books and movies)? If its really a Shadow Sword or Illuminati or whatever, how willing would the user be to part with it? Rhue seems desperate to find his sword whenever he loses it. He wakes up in a cell, and the first question is, 'Where's my sword?!' It strengthens us...it corrupts us...heh, the Phantom Slasher could be Gollum and Rhue could be Smeigel! Well, maybe not, but you get the idea, right?

TempestTide:
I agree with BMZ's point. At first it may seem that he just wants means of defending himself, but oftentimes questioning his sword's location is the first thing he does, as when he was captured by Hill and the Blood Lyn.

So, theories so far (soem may already have been stated by others):

Regarding Rhue and the PS: We see the PS whenever Rhue falls asleep, and the PS never attempts to harm Rhue, in fact, he helps him a number of times. Plus, the Phantom Slasher's victims are never far from Rhue. Add all that along with Gaius's claim at the end of Episode 5, and we've got ourselves a good canidate. Not to mention, Rhue tends to do things impulsively, and is beginning to show a darker side.

Regarding Gaius and the PS: Gaius is also usually asleep when the PS shows up. In episode 1, we mustn't forget that Gaius was also in that tent when the PS approached. Not to mention, he was asleep when the PS killed Sacrifa and his two men at the end of E5 (although we only saw one of them die, Sacrifa may have escaped).

Regarding the identity of Serena: Our choices before Episode 5 were between Cetsa, Scatha, Lyra, Kloe, Lexus, some we have yet to meet, or Serena doesn't exist at all. After Episode 5, Cetsa has ruled herself out after lying to Rhue, then admitting the truth. Scatha previously had the most evidence pointing to her. Her mask could have been for hiding wolf scratches, plus she was quite mysterious. However, new revelations about her (involving Slade being Scatha's brother, both of them having an overly abusive mother), less evidence points to her. Though she is still a possibility, it is very unlikely. Lyra remains a possibility, having been a known survivor of the Landorin Massacre, and Rhue being with a female the night of the tragedy. However, it seems a bit too obvious. Kloe knew Cetsa, and it appears that they both found Serena's pendant, therefore neither actually are Serena. Plus, Kloe's past is with Gaius. Lexus seems to have no connection with Rhue, and was simply added to build up the plot of E4, or so it seems. I'd be willing to place my bet on someone we haven't met, or that Serena never existed at all. Or, she may have been Slade and Scatha's third sibling, who was not elaborated much on.

Regarding Slade and Scatha: This is more of a fact then a theory, that being that Scatha is Slade's older sibling. This becomes very obvious, and if it is not true, then I will stab myself in the eye.

Regarding Rhue and auras: A theory which I have come to believe true is that Rhue obtains the aura and memories of those whose blood has stained his sword. After wholloping Slade, he experiences his memories. It seems when he actually kills someone, they end up in "Dead Estrana." Jed and Midian are there (Midian being the shadowy figure Rhue plunged with in The Pits). Also, many people have seen Lexus in the Rm2k editor there too. The best theory is that Rhue killed someone, and inherited their past and memories of a girl named Serena. But how did the Rhue we know exist before he claimed his first victim?

Regarding Jeruh and Rhue (this is what I believe answers many questions if this theory is true): We hear that Jeruh, Lyra's brother, was never seen after the Landorin massacre. My belief is that no wolves killed those children, but it was Rhue himself who did so. Rhue's first ever victim, I believe, is Lyra's brother Jeruh. The flashback Rhue sees in what I believe is episode 1 is actually this: Jeruh and Lyra fled from whatever killed the other children (it is depicted as wolves in the flashback, but I believe it was the Rhue we know). When Jeruh and Lyra reached the river, Rhue caught up with them. Lyra fell into the river, and Rhue claimed his first victim, Jeruh. Jeruh's personality and emotions had a strong effect on Rhue, and Rhue now has the same hopes that Jeruh would. Lyra would be our Serena, and Jeruh (take out the J in Jeruh's name and rearranged the remaining letters. You'll get "Rhue"). Now Rhue/Jeruh seeks his long lost love/sister, whom it appears he has already met. This is, however, just a theory of mine.

Gaius could also have been involved in the Landorin massacre, knocking Lyra/Serena into the river, and the two of them (Rhue and Gaius) "killing Jeruh together."

Or, Gaius may have know Jeruh before he was killed by Rhue, and Gaius and Jeruh could have killed Trazuin's father together. When Rhue "became" Jeruh, he may not have remembered this.

Impossible:
Her name is Lyrra, not Lyra. Lyra is the character in the His Dark Materials books.

Sephiroth555:
How come I saw Lexus after I killed her in episode 4, but she is buried under a gravestone in episode 5. Was it all in Rhue's head?

Impossible:
You saw Lexus' GHOST, although we're not really sure how that works yet.

By the way, HolsteinCow is in the process of moving this topic over to the new forums, so post there or your parents will rape you with plastic spoons.

[Impossible]

HolsteinCow, the evil hacking demon signature is more convincing in English.

Great job on copying this crap over, though. I wouldn't have taken the time to do all this myself. >_>

[Nakoruru]

i'm german. i know what it means ^^ ...

but why have you copy all this stuff???

[HolsteinCow]

Something to do.

(PS: making the text user friendly is even harder then the copying.)

[HolsteinCow]

Remember, this is the place to discuss Episode 5!

[Excell]

i'm german. i know what it means ^^ ...

but why have you copy all this stuff???

It was all from the old forums which are now down.

[Nakoruru]

yes i realized that yet ^^