Xenosaga Episode III

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Xenosaga Episode III

Postby Kyle » Sun Aug 27, 2006 6:26 am

Xenosaga Episode III for PS2 is nearing release. Be sure to get it and support the saga, it's got the best story ever to be present in a game after all.

I don't care if you don't have any money or have never heard of it, you must get it none the less. I hear selling virtual money in any of the MMORPGs you play can net you some decent money that you can use for this purpose.

If you've never played a Xenosaga game, pick this one up anyway and watch these:
http://bluelaguna.net/movies/xs/fmvs.php
http://bluelaguna.net/movies/xs2/fmvs.php

You'll be able to understand the whole story this way. Seriously if you liked The Way you will like this series.

Release date is August 29th. Official site is here: http://xenosaga3.namco.com/
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Postby Sarcasm » Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:30 am

Xenosaga attempts to appear deep and sophisticated, but in reality it just attempts to appeal to a very specific nich'e market, its story is decent at best.

(Notice that decent is considered high in today's market, given the fact most games have an absolutely terrible story that for some reason people like, AKA FF7)
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Postby Kyle » Mon Aug 28, 2006 10:02 am

Well, then tell me of one game that has a better story. Ever.
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Postby Sarcasm » Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:32 am

The Way.
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Postby Kyle » Mon Aug 28, 2006 1:25 pm

First of all... The Way has a good story going for it, but what happened to it after the final episode? We got nothing but mysteries and theories, no facts whatsoever. And theories are only that, they mean NOTHING when not backed up by facts later on. I'm not saying that's not a strong point in itself, because it sure was fun coming up with theories, but you can't state that the story is finished in any way. Half the characters were even dumped in the end. If it would continue it could be an awesome story, right now it doesn't reach Xenosaga's standard just yet, in my opinion.

And there's just as much content and depth to be explored in Xenosaga, but it's harder to grasp because it does rely on very sophisticated philosofies (which I agree are not the author's, which is the case with Lun and is a very strong point). It has extremely strong character development, though not necessarily as twisted as with Rhue.

Bottom line is, I didn't want this post to become a Xenosaga vs The Way argument, because it's kind of silly trying that on a board meant exactly for us fans. I guess it does seem like this now, but believe me I love both games. But, the fact that the only game you could come up with was The Way must mean that Xenosaga still reaches high standards even in your personal view.
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Postby Teenr0cker » Mon Aug 28, 2006 2:27 pm

First of all... The Way has a good story going for it, but what happened to it after the final episode? We got nothing but mysteries and theories, no facts whatsoever.


Don't bother unless you want to spend a few minutes reading a classic.

http://www.eastoftheweb.com/short-stori ... Tige.shtml

The short version is a pretty princess has an affair with a handsome guy. The barbarian king discovers it and decides the punishment shall be this:

The man will be put in a pit with 2 doors in front of him. Everyone else will watch as he chooses his fate/death. Behind one door is a beautiful girl, just for him to live with and marry. Behind the other door is a tiger that'll just totally own the guy in a matter of moments. The princess found out which door held which thing behind it, but the man isn't supposed to know.

During the trial, before choosing the door, the man looks at the girl and she nods to one of the doors. But which one does she nod to? The one with the tiger (If I can't love you, nobody can), or the one with the maiden (I'll always love you, even when we're apart blah blah)? The author lets you decide. That's the twist. It's what makes the story great and will allow it to stand the test of time.

I think the way has the right amount of questions and the right kind of mysteries presented to the players at most points of the storyline. And it leaves the player wondering what the ending is. If it's a comment on life, it makes sense, because the entirety of life is a mystery. And how well it shows us that life is a mystery is what helps determine whether The Way is a good game.
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Re: Xenosaga Episode III

Postby Strayed Wanderer » Mon Aug 28, 2006 3:55 pm

Sarcasm has a point, the series (even Xenogears to a degree) was based on overcomplicating a story to make it appear interesting. I could barely tolerate part of the first Xenosaga, I would never waste money on the rest of the series.
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Postby Sage Of The Wise » Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:45 pm

Well, unless Xenosaga DS comes stateside I'll never bother playing the series so I can't put my own opinion in, but from what I've heard from friends, I seriously doubt it has the best story ever.
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Postby Novahn » Mon Aug 28, 2006 8:26 pm

Kyle wrote:Well, then tell me of one game that has a better story. Ever.


Sarcasm wrote:The Way.


Kyle wrote:But, the fact that the only game you could come up with was The Way must mean that Xenosaga still reaches high standards even in your personal view.


This isn't really my argument, I just felt you were twisting the dialogue to suit your point.
When I first attempted Xenosaga, I couldn't stand it. I recently tried it again, this time completing it, and it's definitely not a bad game.. I just can't ever see it competing with the story of The Way. I understand this wasn't meant to be a comparison thread between The Way and Xenosaga, but I think that was inevitable considering where we are. The only time I felt remotely as absorbed or curious about the plot of Xenosaga as I did the entire time I enjoyed The Way was the time Jr. first talks about the Gnosis onboard the Durandal. Why? Because it presented mystery. I couldn't have said it better than Teenr0cker and Strayed.
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Postby EmperorJeramyu » Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:39 pm

This is a total crapshoot since the only experiance I've had with Xeno-anything is the hentai, but to me whenever I hear about video games have good storylines I usually find that they have something which could probably be described as "commericialized good stories", in that they have complexity by simply introducing thing after thing after thing and just making connections.

One thing these games also tend to do is make these random religious and philsophical references to appear high-brow or sophisticated. I'm fairly sure Nietzsche's works didn't include giant robots or scantily clad women in them at all. I just have a hard time believing that these commercialized assembly-line produced videogames could have any meaningful of clever allusion to the work of a late 19th century philsopher (I think the whole nihilism thing is too overdone to be clever anyway, but that's another thing all together).

You have to remember that these videogames are just products of corporations with agendas and finances. The storylines are twisted and distorted to fit deadlines, technology, and gamplay needs. That's why I don't think any commerical game will ever reach The Way in terms of story. Lun had complete creative control over the story. Add in the fact that he's a brilliant writer and storyteller (which I'm sure compensates at least a bit for the limitations of rm2k), and you have something that is almost impossible to duplicate in the commercial world (the closest I'll grant it is Terranigma, but Enix was another brand of genius altogether).

Again, I've never played the game, so you're free to call bull, but I think the observations are the main points.
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Postby Burning_Flame » Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:36 pm

I liked the storyline as far as I got, My only complaint was that the cinimatics are too long and too numerous. It would have done better as a movie than a game.
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Postby Sage Of The Wise » Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:01 pm

Killer7 has my current favorite story. It does make a shitload of "random religious and philsophical references", but it doesn't have that assembly line feel that most games suffer from these days. And the presentation was fantastic.
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Postby Kyle » Wed Aug 30, 2006 6:32 am

For me, the more and longer cutscenes the better. I guess it's true that the game caters to only a small audience apparently. Pretty sad as sales are the number one thing that killed the saga :(
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Postby Teenr0cker » Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:27 am

Sure, maybe cutscenes are fine, but here are 3 exceptions in general to any game.


Long Cutscenes are not appreciated in portable games. At least, they weren't before rechargable batteries became a part of the deal.

Don't put a long Cutscene before a boss battle if there isn't a save point between the cutscene and the battle.

Don't put too many long cutscenes in the beginning of the game. Using cutscenes like that is just using them as crutches to help say the plotline in the most simple way possible because they can't be bothered to make a good setting for the player to figure out for themselves what is going on in the plot.
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Postby Kyle » Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:39 am

Teenr0cker wrote:Sure, maybe cutscenes are fine, but here are 3 exceptions in general to any game.


Long Cutscenes are not appreciated in portable games. At least, they weren't before rechargable batteries became a part of the deal.

Don't put a long Cutscene before a boss battle if there isn't a save point between the cutscene and the battle.

Don't put too many long cutscenes in the beginning of the game. Using cutscenes like that is just using them as crutches to help say the plotline in the most simple way possible because they can't be bothered to make a good setting for the player to figure out for themselves what is going on in the plot.


I agree with number 1, not for the battery life but mostly because games that appear on portable devices usually don't lend themselves well to a story with long cutscenes (at least, this counts for games that have been released so far for portable).

Number 2 is perfectly acceptable when there is a skip cutscene command (like in Grandia 3, Xenosaga, Shadow Hearts 2+). But some older (and even some new) games don't have this feature and do present the player with such an ordeal. I find that in these games however, bosses will usually be so easy it is highly unlikely that you will have to see the cutscene again.

Number 3 depends mostly on what you're trying to do during the opening time of your game. Sometimes, the particular situation you're in needs to be told in an interesting way and requires character interaction. For example, in my opinion I hate just being put in a certain place in a certain time at the start of a story and be allowed to run free in there within the first minute. Why? Because the immersion can't start until you at least know what you're looking at (cfr. know what the main character knows at that time). Obviously there are exceptions, but that kind of sums it up for me. And basically, if you have an elaborate story with a grand setting and campaign, it's almost impossible not to have many cutscenes at the start (not talk-scenes, I hate those).
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