Three The Hard Way...

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Re: Three The Hard Way...

Postby randomperson » Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:06 am

Hm, I was looking through the Catawba scenario just now...

There's one point when Fayette says that something about Catawba reminds her of her mother, and then later, Catawba says she "did the same thing once before and it worked well". Is this supposed to imply that Catawba was impersonating the former duchess? If so, does that mean Fayette is part-Kaibutsu?
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Re: Three The Hard Way...

Postby EmperorJeramyu » Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:09 pm

randomperson wrote:Hm, I was looking through the Catawba scenario just now...

There's one point when Fayette says that something about Catawba reminds her of her mother, and then later, Catawba says she "did the same thing once before and it worked well". Is this supposed to imply that Catawba was impersonating the former duchess? If so, does that mean Fayette is part-Kaibutsu?

Yeah, I think she is. Another thing to note is that if you don't kill Catawba she'll show up in the Fayette's parents' room mentioning how it hasn't changed. Also, she's "Carolus's replacement", and I think it's not too far of a stretch to theorize Carolus was the son of Marion and Ramseur.

Also this might be stretching it, but I think Lauren was the one who killed Fayette's mother. Lowrys mentions how she used to work for Duke Greene, and eventually stopped because she was forced to some horrible job, killing someone.
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Re: Three The Hard Way...

Postby Sage Of The Wise » Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:33 pm

I had figured most of that, though I had always wondered about Lauren, that seems to make sense.
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Re: Three The Hard Way...

Postby randomperson » Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:40 am

Huh, I never made the connection there. Interesting stuff.
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Re: Three The Hard Way...

Postby randomperson » Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:05 pm

Lol, found a dialogue contradiction:

In the inn after Vance returns from the thought realm:
Kanna: And your encounter with Manteo the Trickster confirmed that Candor is a myth.

In Durham Castle, just afterwards:
Vance: Another Manteo situation I don't need.
Kanna: (Manteo? But he had not mentioned him before. This situation is a lot more dire than I wanted to believe.)
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Re: Three The Hard Way...

Postby EmperorJeramyu » Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:34 pm

randomperson wrote:Lol, found a dialogue contradiction:

In the inn after Vance returns from the thought realm:
Kanna: And your encounter with Manteo the Trickster confirmed that Candor is a myth.

In Durham Castle, just afterwards:
Vance: Another Manteo situation I don't need.
Kanna: (Manteo? But he had not mentioned him before. This situation is a lot more dire than I wanted to believe.)

Yeah, I noticed that my fist playthrough, and I did actually point that out to iiShenron when I got to chat with him. He didn't even remember either of those lines, so it's just a simple goof.
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Re: Three The Hard Way...

Postby EmperorJeramyu » Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:39 am

Double posting, whatever.

EmperorJeramyu wrote:
randomperson wrote:Hm, I was looking through the Catawba scenario just now...

There's one point when Fayette says that something about Catawba reminds her of her mother, and then later, Catawba says she "did the same thing once before and it worked well". Is this supposed to imply that Catawba was impersonating the former duchess? If so, does that mean Fayette is part-Kaibutsu?

Yeah, I think she is. Another thing to note is that if you don't kill Catawba she'll show up in the Fayette's parents' room mentioning how it hasn't changed. Also, she's "Carolus's replacement", and I think it's not too far of a stretch to theorize Carolus was the son of Marion and Ramseur.

Also I just remembered and looked it up, both Orrum and Manteo refer to Catawba as from or spending time in Burlington in the post-war Kaibutsu lord meeting, with Manteo in particular saying " [...] as much time as you spent in Burlington over the years". So I think this is more or less conclusive.

The major mystery remaining not involving Anderson or stuff in the ending in some way, is for me just what Olanta had to do with the Kaibutsu in the first place. Everything seems to point to her just being set-up as a scapegoat, but I can't help but feel there's something more.

Also what's the significance of Carolus saying he had "slain one of your group on my way here" to Marion in the flashback?

Also what was up with that random chick that survives the ordeal in Teachy's shrine?

EmperorJeramyu wrote:
randomperson wrote:Lol, found a dialogue contradiction:

In the inn after Vance returns from the thought realm:
Kanna: And your encounter with Manteo the Trickster confirmed that Candor is a myth.

In Durham Castle, just afterwards:
Vance: Another Manteo situation I don't need.
Kanna: (Manteo? But he had not mentioned him before. This situation is a lot more dire than I wanted to believe.)

Yeah, I noticed that my fist playthrough, and I did actually point that out to iiShenron when I got to chat with him. He didn't even remember either of those lines, so it's just a simple goof.

Another thing I think might be a mistake is that the story can't seem to make up its mind about just how much the Kaibutsu lords know about the conspiracy between Ramseur and Marion. In an early Kaibutsu meeting, Ramseur says he's keeping Teachy ignorant of their "true objective" which would presumably be to work with Marion to maintain the balance and thus immortality, yet Teachy claims the conspiracy was a secret kept from the other Kaibutsu lords. The only other "goal" the Kaibutsu lords are ever showing having is destroying mankind, and they all seem to know that isn't the real goal, Catawba even explicitly mentioning how Fayette & co might "figure out what's going on anyway, just like Carolus did". Catawba also says "...there are secrets even master Ramseur doesn't know ..." which is a line probably introduced solely to cause headaches.
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Re: Three The Hard Way...

Postby Sage Of The Wise » Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:35 pm

Maybe Ramseur thinks he's kept it a secret from the rest of the Kaibutsu lords, but not the rest of them found out one way or the other, and let Ramseur just think he's still in control. Teachy finding out and telling the other lords just for the hell of it certainly fits his MO.
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Re: Three The Hard Way...

Postby EmperorJeramyu » Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:20 pm

Sage Of The Wise wrote:Maybe Ramseur thinks he's kept it a secret from the rest of the Kaibutsu lords, but not the rest of them found out one way or the other, and let Ramseur just think he's still in control.

Well Ramseur says he's keeping Teachy ignorant of their "true objective" in a meeting with all the lords, and unless there's a third, dummy "true objective" that's never mentioned, he can only be talking about maintaining the balance. There's no reason to believe the other lords know and are pretending they are, especially since at least some of them seem very loyal and fearful of Ramseur.

Sage Of The Wise wrote:Teachy finding out and telling the other lords just for the hell of it certainly fits his MO.

His MO is to cause dischord and strife, and telling the other Kaibutsu lords his plans wouldn't realize his goal in any meaningful fashion. He's consistently showing that he remains mostly hidden and separate from the other masters, only working against them directly in special situations. Also remember Manteo is curious as of to what Teachy tells the party after the war stops. If he knew what he supposedly doesn't, I doubt he would be so curious, and it's pretty clear it wasn't just another trick. Remember, this isn't The Way, the chief difference being you don't have to build bridges of logic to China and back using hypothetical situations the size and complexity of the entire galaxy. You don't need to invent entire short stories to explain things.
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Re: Three The Hard Way...

Postby randomperson » Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:17 am

Yeah, this game has a lot of weird unexplained stuff.

Another odd thing: in the Severn scenario, when Roper's walking to her seat at the festival, some random black-haired girl turns to her, she says "Can I help you?" and the random girl goes "..." and turns away again. Then when she gets to her seat:

Myrtle: Who was that woman you were chatting with just now?
Roper: I'm not sure. She seemed like she thought I should know her for some reason. Strange.

Never mentioned again >_> The girl's event name is "Miaka".
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Re: Three The Hard Way...

Postby Non-Sequitur » Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:25 pm

Miaka is the protagonist of iishenron's first rm2k game, Miaka's Great Adventure.
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Re: Three The Hard Way...

Postby randomperson » Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:22 am

Oh, I see. XD
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