Crestfallen Studios

I noticed halfway through my first time that you never really hear the name of the blonde who finds you in the street at the very beginning. That's pretty strange, two people going to a party together, and you never hear her name...

It's never revealed, but my theories point that it could be Serena.

That's what I was thinking, actually.
SPOILER!!!!!!

Most people in the game are people Rhue has killed, so it would make sense.

I didn't think that The City was a place where people that Rhue had killed rested; I always thought "Wait, what's going on here?". Hence, when I looked at all the little theories, it clicked, and made sense.

>_> Stop making me think so much. I agree with you guys.

Not only people Rhue has killed, I think there are all the auras he somehow absorbed...

Christophomicus wrote:I didn't think that The City was a place where people that Rhue had killed rested

As this was manifestly not the case even in episode 5, good thinking.

The people whose auras have been absorbed by the sword (those killed by, or merely near, Phantom Slasher) do not exist in the city, exactly. They exist with the city, in the sense that Estrana's aura has also been absorbed and the city so preserved. Far beneath Dream Estrana lies Dream Janwen, at least part of whose aura was also absorbed by the sword. Many of the auras in the city predate Midian's acquisition of the sword. Serena is there, after having been killed by Jeruh. Kava is there, having been murdered long ago by Kura. (We may gather than Kura obtained Phantom Slasher and the sword magnified his jealousy, prodding him to kill just as it did Jeruh.)

The one aura that makes me really wonder is the fellow who haunts the opera house. He seems very knowledgeable and not at all like a normal person. I have a hard time believing that he is simply another person whose aura the sword absorbed. But if not that, what is he?

hmm... dsok, what do you think about these three options?

- he's gaius: we do know that the dude has his ways in and out of the place and he keeps in track with the current events since he pulls out 'rhue' at the most crucial time in certain endings...

-he's the same person as the voice rhue hears just before the phantom slasher final plunge...

-he's ... kura?
consider it, we found kava in there too... it might be poetic justice that he's in there too trying to redeem himself in some way... (by makin' ya go trough an apeshit dungeon and offerin' only shitty vague riddles that may or may not connect to the truth... :s)

what puzzle's me more then that phantom dude is the lil kid you meet at the opera house and the guy standing near him ranting on about not to look trough the windows trough which you'll supposedly see the rolling mists... Who're they according to you ppl?

Alundra wrote:hmm... dsok, what do you think about these three options?

- he's gaius: we do know that the dude has his ways in and out of the place and he keeps in track with the current events since he pulls out 'rhue' at the most crucial time in certain endings...

I think Gaius can be ruled out. He clearly does not know what's gone on in Dream Estrana in the Lexus ending. So I think it's impossible for him to have been such a knowledgeable figure appearing there.

Alundra wrote:-he's the same person as the voice rhue hears just before the phantom slasher final plunge....

Isn't that just the voice of Phantom Slasher itself? The sword is talking to him, justifying its own existence by the fact that it has created the composite entity known as "Rhue."

Alundra wrote:-he's ... kura?
consider it, we found kava in there too... it might be poetic justice that he's in there too trying to redeem himself in some way... (by makin' ya go trough an apeshit dungeon and offerin' only shitty vague riddles that may or may not connect to the truth... :s)

From Kava's statements to Rhue, it seems like Kura's personality probably does make up part of the composite "Rhue." So his aura probably should be present in Dream Estrana. However, I don't see anything in particular to tie him to the phantom. The phantom's knowledge (he tells Rhue that there is only one person in Dream Estrana that he has ever truly known; that is, there is one aura there that he has experienced for himself--his original identity, Midian) and his artwork are both very peculiar features, and neither of them seems connected in any way to Kura.

Alundra wrote:what puzzle's me more then that phantom dude is the lil kid you meet at the opera house and the guy standing near him ranting on about not to look trough the windows trough which you'll supposedly see the rolling mists... Who're they according to you ppl?

Yeah, there are some weird auras in the concert hall. Those definitely seem puzzling, but they could just be the auras of disturbed people, trapped for a very long time in the sword. Not all the auras seem equally well adjusted to life as such ghosts. The woman who tells Rhue about Kalmar (who I do not really believe is Traziun's mother, because there's no explanation of how Phantom Slasher could have been near her when she died) seems quite ill-at-ease in the place.

Actually, I now have an idea for who the phantom might be. He may be the aura of the Landorin massacre itself, or the place where the killings occurred. His childlike art and his portrayal of sites of tragedy are both suggestive of this possibility. Also, the killings were committed by Jeruh wielding Phanom Slasher, so that might explain the fact that the aura of the murders appears as a sort of phantom. However, I can't really name any hard evidence to support the theory, although it's my best guess at the moment.

Flibbo wrote:I thought that the Phantom slasher had killed Traziun's mother and that by ending his own life and making the sword feel remorce Traziun was able to end the phantom slasher, a life for a life.

I've seen a few posts to this effect here, and I don't think it's right.

The obvious conclusion I drew from Traziun's behavior at the ending was that he himself had killed his mother but no longer remembered it. That explains Traz's horror when he learns the truth (whereas his mother being killed by somebody wielding the same sword Rhue now has does not; nor, if the killing were committed by The Phantom Slasher, would he be able to blame his father until the end, which he does). Further, there's no indication that Traziun expects the sword to be destroyed; he says merely "a life for a life," meaning his for his mothers.

i deleted that post....


anyway, that doesn't really make sence. If he just wanted to kill himself why go to the trouble of meeting up with Gaius and Rhue, why not just stab himself with his own sword or jump off a cliff or something?

a) Hoes noes, I just found out from a very reliable source that I killed my own mother, let's go find Rhue so I can use his sword to stab myself in the heart and make a very big scene of it for no apparent reason.

Or...

b) Hoes noes, I just found out that my mother was killed by the PS in Rhue's sword, let's go and destroy it with my powers of remorse.

Fredric wrote:a) Hoes noes, I just found out from a very reliable source that I killed my own mother, let's go find Rhue so I can use his sword to stab myself in the heart and make a very big scene of it for no apparent reason.

I can only speak for myself, but if I were going to slay myself to make atonement for my mortal sins, I would make a big scene out of it, rather than doing it alone in the woods where nobody could see me.

Fredric wrote:b) Hoes noes, I just found out that my mother was killed by the PS in Rhue's sword, let's go and destroy it with my powers of remorse.

There are innumerable problems with this theory. I think it is seriously entertained here only because it was probably the first theory somebody posted (rather like the prevailing theory on the nature of Dream Estrana after episode 5). Here are some questions that point out why this doesn't make sense.

Why would Traziun respond with such shock to the revelation about who killed his mother if it were the Phantom Slasher? This may tbe the biggest problem with the whole theory. After seeing his response to the scene Kalmar shows him in episode 5, most people figured it had to be either Rhue or Gaius (or both) he had seen killing his mother. Traziun's reaction shows that he is quite shocked by the news, and one might gather than it was somebody he had trusted. Who better fits this description than Traziun himself? The Phantom Slasher certainly does not! And if it were the Phantom Slasher, that would probably absolve Kalmar from guilt in the matter, something that Traziun's words before his death show no sign of.

How would Traziun know that the Phantom Slasher was a product of Rhue's sword? Gaius clearly has some idea how this works, but he has the advantage of being the main phantom slasher himself; already knowing half the mystery, it makes the rest not too difficult to work out (and even Gaius doesn't get it exactly right). There is no indication that Traziun knows the nature of the Phantom Slasher; if anything, he seems to believe that it is solely Gaius.

How would Traziun know that the sword could be destroyed that way? That requires pretty extensive knowledge of the nature of the magical swords on The Way. He would have to know, at a very minimum, that the shadow swords and illuminati are the same; again, I see no indication that he knows this.

If Traziun's main purpose was to "kill" Phantom Slasher, why would we refer to "a life for a life"? On the one hand, we have Traziun's mother; on the other, we have Traziun himself and the sword being made to pay. By my count, that is two to one.

Why, if the purpose was to destroy the sword, and not himself, would Traziun insist on letting Rhue go in the Lexus ending?

How would Traziun know that the sword could be destroyed that way? That requires pretty extensive knowledge of the nature of the magical swords on The Way. He would have to know, at a very minimum, that the shadow swords and illuminati are the same; again, I see no indication that he knows this.

If Traziun's main purpose was to "kill" Phantom Slasher, why would we refer to "a life for a life"? On the one hand, we have Traziun's mother; on the other, we have Traziun himself and the sword being made to pay. By my count, that is two to one.

Why, if the purpose was to destroy the sword, and not himself, would Traziun insist on letting Rhue go in the Lexus ending?

He didn't know the sword would be destroyed, he killed himself to get to dream estrana and kill the PS from there.

Fredric wrote:He didn't know the sword would be destroyed, he killed himself to get to dream estrana and kill the PS from there.

That's the weirdest permutation I've heard yet. You assume that Traziun knows about Dream Estrana (which he might or might not). He was certainly not as emmeshed with his own shadow sword as Rhue was with Phantom Slasher, so I doubt Traziun could have experienced a dream world with the auras Night Reaper had absorbed.

However, even assuming it's possible that he knew about the place, what you suggest is not possible. The reason is simple: The auras of the dead in Dream Estrana do not act on their own. The only person who causes things to change inside the dream is Rhue. Why does Rhue have this unique ability? Because he, alone of all the people there, is alive. The others simply go about their "existence," passively, playing their set roles. Things can happen without Rhue actually doing them, but they only occur once Rhue has started stirring things up--once he has changed the set order.

If you want one powerful concrete evidence that there is no change, no dynamics, except as motivated by Rhue, consider this. Kavax and Exmus have never plunged; the top challenger has never faced the champion. For if they had, Kavax would not still be the Pharaphalyn. The plunge rankings are therefore static, not determined by any competition. The competition only occurs once Rhue becomes involved.

So if Traziun understood the nature of Dream Estrana, he should have known that he could not accomplish the goal of destroying the Phanom Slasher if he himself were dead.

I'm still not completly sure with all the details, but I think it was Traziun who killed his mother. Hell, heres a wild theory, maby when Traziun killed her he had the Phantom Slasher and the auras in the sword reconize every weilder of the sword as the same person, which explains why that women, assuming she is Traz's mom, thought Rhue was going to kill her, just as Traziun was going to. I'm sure thats all full or holes but its somthing. I'm still just happy I predicted Traziun's suicide to begin with.