My Questions

=SPOILER ALERT= This is for those people who have FINISHED E6, and wish to discuss theories and stuff. Do NOT use it as a help board.

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Postby 1commander » Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:18 am

Impossible wrote:
Secondly, it's impossible to say that you don't recall Midian dying by Rhue's sword if you have no idea how he died - he obviously WAS killed by that sword.



I said "I don't recall" in the first person, just in case you are making that mistake, as it seems you might be. Not from Rhue's point of view. And if Rhue actually is Midian, as some people postulate on this board, then no, he *wasn't* killed by the sword. It's just Rhue's original aura. It's not obvious; that Midian was killed is at best an inference, even if evidenced, as you simply dont know.

Midian inhabits Dream Estrana but saying DE is the phantom slasher victim-ville only makes sense if you accept a host of other things, rightly or wrongly, about DE. For example, the nameless girl has to be serena, the woman with red hair would 99% be traziun's mom, etc. Now these examples have evidence in the storyline, but what about Midian? You just have to assume because everyone else died in so and so manner, he did too, but while this may be reasonable, it is a glaring hole in the story nevertheless and it casts doubt on the victim-ville idea. Also, there are LOTS of people who ARE in DR that Rhue didn't kill, just not main characters. Charlatans of Justice, for example. Plus there are no Blood Lyn that I saw, but plenty of those die by Rhue's sword.

Although this is something I missed until I saw a screenshot thread, Alan doesn't explicitly die... you just see his legs, as far as I can tell, and when the PS attacks, he cuts up Sacrifa and his friends in that scene, but Alan doesnt appear to be there. (Why would he be anyway?) That Alan is in DE is a mystery too, because the circumstances that got him there are a mystery. Plus why Alan is killed - what sins did he commit - is open too. I dont think that scene with Slade is meant to show Alan to be bad so much as to show Slade to be caught up in his women-defense routine, as Alan is just flirting.

I think that DE is PS victim-ville makes sense considering the aura part of the story, but Midian, as noted, is not explained *via this.* You include him on the basis of an overarching generalization. It's "painfully obvious" that this is a logical error, whether or not Midian was actually killed by Rhue. In anycase, I would appreciate answers to the questions that I still have rather than debating what is or is not obvious... the fact that it is debated makes it not "obvious," and according to many posters/posts, even your own, several things listed here are debated and up in the air.
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Postby Jabbo » Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:58 am

Ok, we know that The City is the essence of a place inside Rhue's sword, since Rhue's able to go there no matter where he is (the one link being that he always has his sword). And Gaius is able to send him there, and he goes there without physically moving in reality. It's a logical conclusion to draw that The City has a direct correlation with his sword and is not some extraplanar city in the middle of nowhere that just happens to look like Estrana.

Rhue is a special case, since he's the one who has the sword and Gaius apparently has some crazy power that makes him enter into his sword's aura. But there aren't any other special cases because there's no reason for there to be any other special cases.

Neither Alan nor Sacrifa explicitly die, but the Phantom Slasher never fails to kill anyone, so it follows that Alan died. And keep in mind that Rhue, probably being Kura, has been alive an incredibly long time, and has had the chance to kill an incredibly high number of wanderers. Even if that's wrong, the sword's been around a long time and has had the same chance.

There's no reason for Midian to be special in any way, so therefore we assume he got to The City just like everyone else did. It's an assumption, but it's a fairly safe assumption.

I don't know, arguing that Lun would twist the plot so much that even things that seem complicated are actually a thousand times more complicated than they are just seems wrong.
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Postby Poenaensis » Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:39 pm

Jabbo wrote:So basically Tetzel knows every damned thing about the entire Way, and he's probably an ass, too, so if anyone ever talked to him he wouldn't tell them anything.


sounds a bit like Gaius
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Postby 1commander » Mon Jan 16, 2006 3:40 pm

Jabbo wrote:There's no reason for Midian to be special in any way, so therefore we assume he got to The City just like everyone else did. It's an assumption, but it's a fairly safe assumption.

I don't know, arguing that Lun would twist the plot so much that even things that seem complicated are actually a thousand times more complicated than they are just seems wrong.


I know it seems a fair assumption, but it isn't obvious. That's all I am trying to say. The word obvious has been tossed around here but it's not obvious that people know what obvious means. :wink: The assumption raises questions though - why does the Headhunter - Ep 2, I think - call Rhue Midian? Plus he has a hard time looking in mirrors, possibly because he doesn't recognize himself, but that could/probably is part of the Jeruh incident instead.

I don't think Rhue is Midian, but it seems very weird that Midian would end up in the sword for no reason other than, well, he's there. (No death scene or true implication of death at all, and if the river DID kill him, that just leads to greater problems as Jeruh isnt Rhue yet at that point.) What I think is that Rhue is the mimic who doesnt know he is a mimic. He was once Kura, he was once Midian, and he was once Rhue, and now he's just sort of free, for the time being, or so we think. Prior to that is unknown as Kura comes after Janwen due to the guided being formed after the Janwen incident, and the Kura story involving the Guided.

Questions that arise from this hypothesis are numerous too:
1) Why does Rhue not know he is a mimic?
2) Why is the mimic bit so hidden and not really a part of the story line, but rather side info you can collect? It would be weird for the author to have it there for no purpose, but it's been done before.
3) Why does Rhue only take certain people's memories and make them his personality, and not other's?
4) Gaius and Traziun are the only people who could know what Rhue is possibly. You still dont know why Gaius was with Rhue at the end, and whether or not Rhue is part of the perfect blade or if Gaius all there is.
5) Why did Rhue kill Midian?

Here are the personalities of Rhue I have
-Jeruh/Rhue
-Midian
-no personality (ending)
-Kura
-and whatever it was that Gaius was hanging out with, which could have been Midian.

There has to be a back story to this though. Why a mimic? What's the purpose? So many questions it brings up, even if you take the assumptions. The connection between the mimic and the PS is tough to work out too. For my own knowledge, did Jeruh have the PS or the night reaper? And what Rhue have when he killed Jeruh?

By the way Jabbo, I found your FAQ very useful. It was a great resource.
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Postby Asra » Fri Jan 20, 2006 6:19 am

The Traziun Suicide Ending is the default ending, but if you listen to Fwacho the Lexus one is probably the correct ending.
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Postby 1commander » Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:14 am

Can you give me a link to where Fwacho makes that comment? And I take it Fwacho knows the author enough to speak on the topic?
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Postby Non-Sequitur » Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:22 am

Fwacho and the author are brothers and he has helped him with the story and character design.
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Postby Sage Of The Wise » Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:01 pm

1commander wrote:Can you give me a link to where Fwacho makes that comment? And I take it Fwacho knows the author enough to speak on the topic?

http://www.crestfallen.us/phpBB2/viewto ... 1606#11606
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Postby SeeK » Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:03 pm

Nightshadow, what do you mean there would be no Kavax without Strata? Kavax is in The City, and Strata ain't dead.
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Postby nerx » Sat Jan 21, 2006 4:03 pm

I have a BRILLIANT idea! Grab a partner.

Now, make some assumtions about The Way's story. Your partner should do the same.

Here's the brilliance: Share your assumtions as fact, and insult your partner based on them. Make sure you include heaps of *sigh*s for effect.

Edit: DAMN! Someone beat me to it!

Mm.. I think I'm done theorizing now.. so I won't be coming back, the problem's possibility. Sure, every single fact might be in there, but it's possible to explain some things under slightly different terms. That's an understatement. We may have picked the best theories and stuck with them, but variants of those theories are still possible if every bit of evidence can point to both. Easily gained example: the sword could have somehow created the Phantom Slasher, or the Phantom Slasher could have created the sword, or, it could have been inserted by someone, or something. I'm stubborn, so I still try to hold to the importance of "perfect" justice in the plot, thus sticking to the idea that shadow swords and illuminati are the same thing, and were the same thing originally. They could have been corrupted, but how is that possible? If they serve justice, then how can they be corrupted? Justice itself is imperfect, and corruption is not clear.

Oh, well, actually, I think every single scrap of evidence is there to solve everything. This is sort of an excuse. Heh. I don't know. Lun's confusing. I think that if it's all there, it's going to be very hard to find and put together correctly. Someone once questioned how such detail could be inserted in to a game yet still be clear to the player. (not related to the way) However, a game is still complete if it's not all clear. If you want to know the truth about everything, you must search for it. Imagine wanting to know the truth of everything in life..

Oh, and if it's not over, I'm gone anyway. Way rocks.
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Postby fwacho » Sun Jan 22, 2006 8:35 pm

There should be enoguh information given (if you do all sidequests) to understand the truth about shadowswords, Rhue, and to guess reasonably well about Giaus. It is also very clear who killed Traziun's mother. you just have to get all teh information next to itself to put it together.
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Postby Impossible » Mon Jan 23, 2006 5:31 am

Damn, fwacho, you know that's not true. Even if there is enough information about who killed Traziun's mother to work it out, without confirmation, theories mean NOTHING, not until we know the circumstances surrounding her death. WHY was she killed?
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Postby Spyke10k » Mon Jan 23, 2006 5:35 am

Yeah Fwacho, "Truth Hides Nothing" right? Heh heh...
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Postby 1commander » Mon Jan 23, 2006 9:41 pm

Fwacho, why dont you just tell us then? :D Then I can be on my merry way... you can even PM me, and I'll just go away with the knowledge...

But...
I dont find it clear who killed Traziun's mom other than the shadowsword Rhue holds... who's to say that it was actually Rhue and not one of the many people the sword has absorbed? Evidently there is NOT enough to know all the things you say because there are still various theories about each of them. Is Rhue Venge? Is Rhue the mimic? Etc. Why is it that you wont just say the answer? This is the spoiler board. If there is another project with the answers coming up, then say that at least.
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Postby Imoto » Tue Jan 24, 2006 5:41 am

Tetzel's actions are impossible to pin down, because we have no idea what his motives are. It's alluded to that the Way exists in it's cyclical nature because of him, and that he wants everybody to keep moving for some reason, And the whole place is basically in an event loop, (Janwen gets real big, demon mojo, burns down, Estrana follows suite, only Rhue has probably been around for a LOT of cycles, building up and losing his Aura/Personality over and over), but we really don't know why he's doing all this, and what Gaius is doing is also all ambiguous, though he seems to be trying to eliminate the shadow swords, perhaps under Tetzel's orders, in order to remove the non-aging effect they have, and the way that screws up the event cycle flow.

The real kicker is that if it is all cyclical, Lun could easily intend that this is the whole story of The Way, and that this **** just happens to Rhue/Mimic over, and over, and over, and that's the whole story.

On a semi-related note, I've hated that kind of plot element ever since Mighty Max.
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