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Postby fwacho » Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:15 pm

Asra wrote:Technically Kavax wouldn't feel angry because he wouldn't remember the time he was killed, unless being the Pharalyn lets him know it. It would also explain who visited the witches grave in the forest in that robe.

Now back to the swords. The swords have a purpose other than just killing for the sake of killing. They're tools originally made to purify the way, or at least I think thats their original intention from what the PS says.


That's very astute I would also refer the readersto the estrana area post of "Strata down but not out" for a a very thorough discusion of evil and how it relates to The Way.
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Postby Poenaensis » Mon Jan 23, 2006 1:40 pm

Masked Gamer wrote:
Chaos and Order has a far more widely accepted definition. Order can be represented by any sort of system, from religion to government. Chaos is basically anarchy, literally or figuratively.

Joseph Conrad suggests that Chaos is like a black hole, it consumes and consumes and consumes. The only thing that can block the black hole is a belief system (Order). That's why a balance must exist between the two. Without chaos, we wouldn't eat or procreate, but without order, we'd kill without mercy...

I think that may apply here, perhaps.


I'm not looking for a battle, but...:

Religion bringing order to chaos.. or even a government, we're back to morals, good and evil.

Some people think that living in an anarchaic state, where everyone is working for the good of the species, would be the best was. Don't say "that would never work" because that's good and evil again.

No offence, but you are missing the point of your own statement, saying that chaos is like a black hole and that we'd kill without mercy is back to the good and evil thing.

For example, if everyone had to fight for resources because of no government etc then that would be survival of the fittest, a different order. Order and chaos are as debateable as good and evil.

They are, in my opinion slightly different. You are right good and evil don't exist because morals are a human principle, the universe is amoral.

Everything in the universe obeys the laws of physics, whatever they are, and so could be said to be either complete order or complete chaos, again personal opinion.

you can't say that chaos and order are more definable than good and evil just because peoples opinions on them are more similar, majority opinion is rubbish sometimes.

Most importantly though.. good and evil are useful names for things when discussing something so there's no need to make a fuss about it. Everyone has been using those labels so let's just carry on.
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Postby Masked Gamer » Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:55 pm

I think you're missing the point of my post as well. :P chaos and order are both good and bad for different reasons. Essentially good and evil are irrelevant.

I would never say that an society where everyone is working toward the good of the species is bad or good (although it would work). However it doesn't matter, because that's not what anarchy is. Anarchy is a state unruled by any system, that includes survival of the fittest in some ways. Adaptation is no longer a real concern of humans because of the way we have developed.

I never said killing without mercy is an evil act per se. In some societies it's considered a valuable ability. And the term "black hole" was just an illustration of chaos's need to consume.

For example, if everyone had to fight for resources because of no government etc then that would be survival of the fittest, a different order.


If you read over what you said there, I think you'll find that the things you pointed out as chaotic or orderly are widely accepted as chaotic or orderly, respectively. So no, order and chaos are not really debatable in that case.

I do agree however that in the case of the universe it could be considered chaos or order, but at the same time, you couldn't categorize the universe into good or evil or almost any other category. It's not an easily defined thing; however, in worldly matters, I'd still suggest that chaos and order are a more consistant way to divide things.

No offense. I just enjoy a good debate.
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Postby Magnusblitz » Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:04 pm

Here's a theory: Lun was originally going to use it, forgot about it, and then never used it.

He could always make up something, if he needed to.
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Postby Violent_Paradan » Wed Jan 25, 2006 12:21 am

My theory is that good and evil in The Way follow a D&D style alignment: Light, Dark, Law, and Chaos; and the four known transcendent auras represent their base energies.
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