Rhue the who?

[Requiem]

So my friend (yoreliter) and I had a long drawn out discussion of who Rhue originally was, how he became who he is, and why what happened as it did.

Surprisingly enough, we made quite a bit of progress!

Now, let us begin. Keep in mind most of this is theory and conjecture, but I'll try and back it up with as much evidence as possible.

In the beginning... There are a few possibilities.
Odds are, Rhue was originally one of the heroes who wielded an Illuminati against the Lord Below.
Then, after scarring the beast, Mr. Below sent forth his horde as he retreated... Possibly including...

His own son, Venge. The hero slew Venge in the desperate battle that ensued and, as misfortune would have it, absorbed his aura.

Thus the Hero became Venge. And in the process, the Illuminati was tainted by the dark lord's power, and became of Shadow Sword quality.

"Venge" by Kleunwrade
Scar upon the father's brow
Left by son, the disavowed
The shadowed depths below forsaken
Enter now our world, thy haven.

Fading into the night,
The scourge of fear, the blight.
Upon this land beneath the sky.
Echoes of the past decry.
Sacrifa: Venge was supposedly a son of the Lord Below that came to the Middle Way in order to avenge the scarring of his father.
Rhue: The Lord Below was scarred?
Sacrifa: Yes, in a battle with Lyn who were weilding the Illuminati.
Rhue: Hmmm... (That's strange. The poem seems to suggest otherwise.)


Note the contradiction between what Sacrifa states and what the poem says, as Rhue points out. This would support the previous theory seeing as the son, now in the body of the Hero that scarred the Lord Below, was sent to the Middle Way because his father no longer trusted him.

Now, moving right along, let's say that Venge went all along the Middle Way for quite some time, killing people, absorbing their auras, and taking their places. Because of these characteristics, he came to be known as The Mimic.

"The Mimic" by Kleunwrade
One who stole their names,
The child of Janwen's bane.
Darkness, shadow, death.
As long as it has breath.
Sacrifa:"The Mimic" is a legendary evil that is said to have imitated its victims. The Mimic killed people and then would pretend to be them. For a time the Mimic was the most feared being across the entire Way.


Makes sense, right?
Eventually, the mimic came to kill and absorb of the aura of...

Kura, the one and only.
Now, as the legend of Kava and Kura goes, Kura kills Kava.
After doing this, Kura absorbs the aura of Kava and becomes him.
Thinking himself now Kava, he slaughters the guided for killing Luma.

"Kura" by Kleunwrade
Legend of the fallen world,
Betrayed for lust, a plan unfurled.
First to right a single wrong,
Then revenge, The Guided strong.
Sacrifa: The show we were in didn't go into what became of Kura. That's to be expected though. Most people focus on Kava and Luma. Did you know the entire Guided camp was massacred the night after Kava and Luma met their end? Most people believe it was Kava come back from the dead, to avenge himself and Luma. It's also said that a forest grew up out of the ground where the massacre occurred.


Again, makes sense, right?
Kava "came back from the dead" after being killed by Kura.

So, Kava is now free to roam the way for a time.
He eventually becomes the most powerful swordsman along the way, or so we assume, given Kavax's status as Paraphalyn in Dream Estrana.

Now, unfortunately, is where it gets a little fuzzy.

Near the end of the game, Midian states that after the Landorin massacre, he picks up a sword and trains himself to be a powerful swordsman so that he may one day get revenge on Jeruh. It is only natural that he would seek out someone like the Paraphalyn to improve his skills.

Now perhaps, and this is a big perhaps, Kava and Midian fought.
Kava kills Midian either because of an accident or because they agreed to fight to the death.

Kava absorbs Midian's aura.

However, it doesn't necessarily have to be Kava. Kava could have undoubtedly killed a number of people as Paraphalyn and mistakingly absorbed one of their auras.
We also have to compensate for the time period in which Jeruh picks up the Shadow Sword, uses it in the Landorin Massacre, and loses it.


But regardless...

So now we're Midian. Midian continues to pursue his goal of revenge and eventually comes across Jeruh.
As evidenced in the flashback of the normal ending, Rhue, now Midian, states he has waited for this moment for a lifetime, only further lending to the assumption that he was Midian at the time.

So, Midian kills Jeruh and absorbs his aura.

Now, at last, he's Rhue.

Let's recap, shall we?

Assuming that Rhue is originally the Hero of Janwen and assuming that Kava doesn't exchange auras with anyone else before Midian...



Hero -> Venge -> Mimic -> Kura -> Kava -> Midian -> Rhue



So there you have it ladies and gentlemen.

Now let me make a couple points as to what I'm still a little confused about...

- The two shadow figures, from which Jeruh gets the Shadow Sword. Going by the current read out, one of them would have had to be Kava. As something to note, could the second horrible incident that occured at Landorin, as mentioned in the Wanderer's Guide Book, have been the slaughter of the entire Guided Camp by Kava?

- When was Traziun's mom killed during all this? Perhaps, when Jeruh lost the sword, someone else picked it up before Rhue got it back again? Because as far as the current time line goes, none of them would have a real motive to kill her.

Feel free to comment and tell me where I've made blatant mistakes.
Or, if you have something more to add, and I feel it is superior to my own deduction, I will edit this post.

[Phile]

Yay, cool thing! I think a lot of these ideas were already mentioned in other topics recently, but not yet in this accurately sorted way

I wonder where Venge's aura hides then in Dream Estrana. Maybe it is the Phantom in the concert hall (more probably this is Kleunwrade but why would an artist appear with a phantom shape when all the other auras in Rhue's head appear exactely as they looked in real life?)
Or maybe Venge's aura is the first boss in the Reaches (I did'nt beat him so far... must notch me up).

And I wonder what makes some auras become dominant auras (like Jeruh, Midian, Kura etc.) and most not. I bet Traziun's mother had a strong aura & soul, too, after all she is the only one who seems to slightly remember being killed by Rhue.

[Masked Gamer]

And I wonder what makes some auras become dominant auras (like Jeruh, Midian, Kura etc.) and most not. I bet Traziun's mother had a strong aura & soul, too, after all she is the only one who seems to slightly remember being killed by Rhue.

Simple. Purpose. Think about the people we have a hunch he's been. For the most part they all have a quest to be on. Having a strong Aura doesn't mean you have a strong purpose in life.

[Sage Of The Wise]

bet Traziun's mother had a strong aura & soul, too, after all she is the only one who seems to slightly remember being killed by Rhue.

She remembers Rhue wanting to kill her. Doesn't meen she has any recolaction of him actually doing it.

It seems the dominant auras are ones the shadow swords can manipulate the easiest. They have one single goal, and will do anything to do it. Remember all the crazy things Rhue does just for the chance of getting a hint about Serena? It would be all to easy to get them to do what you want. The sword has to switch dominant auras to stay in control when the current one fufills its goal, like Midian killing Jeruh. If you ever saw the movie Memento, its a lot like that. If you havent, well then it really doesnt matter.

[Miss Nothingness Highness]

ooooh this is good, it would also explain the witch's grave in the forest

[Asra]

I think it may have been Kava in the shroud in the witches' forest that tells Rhue to not dig up the grave. Though after Kava got his revenge against the Guided for killing Lumina what goal would keep him going? Hunting down and killing Kura(ironically enough this would help fuel an endless search, albeit like Serena's)?

[Antagon]

"Rhue" originally being one of the heroes wielding the Illuminati is something I never thought of... that would explain why the guy near the Reaches in E6 assumed you were searching for the Illuminati.

The one thing I don't really completely agree with is Kava coming back from the dead. I think "Kura" (assuming he had the PS at the time) slayed them all.

[Imoto]

It doesn't need to be a Hero that wounded the Lord Below.

Venge could have easily aquired an Illuminati, faught with the other heroes who took up Illuminati, in order to try to beat down his dad and become the new Lord Below, found out he was unnable to do so, ended up with a cursed sword and a ****ed up aura when the Lord Below unleashes his aura corrupting mojo. Venge then flees hell with his sword, and ends up becoming the mimic because of his fractured aura. With the sword in hand he ends up killing people as he goes from aura to aura generating the story of the mimic. At some point he gets Kura's aura and then meets Kava.

You'll notice that Kura like Rhue seems to have a very sociopathic and violent streak in him, this is a result of Venge's soul and the shadow sword.

This line of reasoning makes the Lexus ending where Rhue is all "I have no end." and suddenly flies off, make a lot more sense. He's finally become Venge again, by subdueing the other auras. via solving their goals. "Rhue" is with Lexus, and all the older auras the sword put in him had their goals met before, like Midian waxing Jeruh.

Another intersting thing to think about, by the time Kura is around, there are already Guided. It's not a stretch to say Tetzel has been around for a long time, probably around the time Janwen was around, and he's the one with the last remaining Illuminati. And after Janwen, he probably made The Way so people wouldn't be able to go digging a hole to hell.

So what's Venge gonna do now that he's back?

He's gonna go get that last Illuminati.

[Phile]

The sword has to switch dominant auras to stay in control when the current one fufills its goal, like Midian killing Jeruh. If you ever saw the movie Memento, its a lot like that. If you havent, well then it really doesnt matter.

Yeah, I watched the movie and I get your point. So all the dominant auras have got their individual "John G."... this is a very good analogy!

[Thanatos]

I have to say that it was really nice to see a nice theorised timeline of "Rhue", and I agree on a lot of the different stages of his life. (Though the question of "How Midian gets killed" is entirely irrelevant).

The only stage I don't agree with is the first. There is better evidence supporting the idea that "Rhue" is Venge. I say this only because (and many people seem to ignore this) but Rhue feels at home in caves. This is mentioned twice (by my count) in the series. The first time is in the cave in Episode 1. Traziun and Gaius are complaining, and Rhue? "It's not so bad..." The second time is in a thought to himself after Scatha discusses the 'merits' of the Under Way. "(You kind of understand what she means, don't you?)". The darkness is home to him, and fills him with a certain sense of nostalgia. I admit, that these are vague clues, but you have to work with what you're given.

Now, for the rest of this post, I'm going to assume that Rhue's original form was Venge for the above reasons.

Rhue's bodily form never changes. Ever. No matter how many auras he absorbs. He always looks the same. If Rhue is Venge... Why does he look so human? Well, is it that far of a stretch to call Rhue a child of Janwen's bane? By all evidence, the people of Janwen apparently had pretty close ties with the Reaches. It's quite possible that some residents could've even interacted with the Lord of Below. Venge could've very well had a human mother, while still having the Lord of Below as his father.

Now lets assume that the poem titled Venge is more accurate than Sacrifa. Venge could've rebelled against his father on his own, without the help of "heroes". Rejecting evil, Venge searches for an Illuminati and strikes his father. He doesn't succeed in killing him, but does succeed in scarring him at least. Nevertheless, the shadowed depths he once called home is no longer safe for him. His only protection is on the surface. And in a rage, the Lord of Below obviously wants to kill his son. He burns Janwen to the ground. Venge somehow escapes, and by escaping the Reaches *and* Janwen, he escapes the only real places his father has power.

Of course, while on the Middle Way... Confrontations will occur, one way or another. *THIS* is where he becomes the Mimic. And from this point on, I agree with the rest of your theory, Requiem.

Now the question that this does not answer is why does an absorbed aura replace Venge in the first place? The case of the Mimic seems to be a very special one that only involves a single wielder of a Shadow Sword/Illuminati, and in this case, it's our dear "Rhue". So allow me to theorise again, (though I admit, the following will appear even *more* farfetched than the above).

"Rhue", or Venge, is a half-breed. He is part demon, part human. It's pretty damn safe to say that demons don't have souls, and thus, no auras. It's safe to assume then that Venge (or "Rhue") was born with a soul (which led him to rebel against his father in the first place). An aura can't produce a soul, anymore than a shadow can produce an object. Since he's not entirely human however, he might not entirely have a complete soul, or maybe he might just have a weaker projection of his soul (aura) due to his lineage. Thus, the Illuminati first absorbing a strong aura might very well overwhelm Venge, causing the phenomenon known as the Mimic.

Therefore, while in Jopoga's laboratory, when his soul and his aura were both separated from "Rhue"... What was left? His demonic side, which has no aura or soul. This same ever-present demonic side is also what leads him to this violence. Even if his soul isn't evil, violence is in his blood.

As for how the Phantom Slasher came to be... Well, he was birthed by absorption of the aura of the lunatic murderer, Jeruh. Of course, Jeruh was just an ordinary murderer. There was no supernatural side to it (unless we assume that his descent into madness was caused by the sword he used in Landorin). However, that mentality combined with a half-demon wielding an Illuminati could just very well produce something sick and twisted enough as the Phantom Slasher.

So my revised order is this:

Venge -> Mimic -> Kura -> Kava -> *** -> Midian -> "Rhue"

Where *** means any number of individuals in between. It could be Kava... It could be somebody completely different.

- The two shadow figures, from which Jeruh gets the Shadow Sword. Going by the current read out, one of them would have had to be Kava. As something to note, could the second horrible incident that occured at Landorin, as mentioned in the Wanderer's Guide Book, have been the slaughter of the entire Guided Camp by Kava?

There's not much reason to assume that the person we know as "Rhue" has anything to do with those two figures. Nothing *really* ties him to them. As for the other Landorin incident... Yes, that's entirely possible, and very likely if everything before that is to be considered true. If the Illuminati that Venge wields has the power to absorb entire LOCATIONS, then it's entirely possible that the forest in Dream Estrana is none other than where the first massacre took place. Which, does in fact explain who the witch was. Kudos to you!

- When was Traziun's mom killed during all this? Perhaps, when Jeruh lost the sword, someone else picked it up before Rhue got it back again? Because as far as the current time line goes, none of them would have a real motive to kill her.

By my timeline? It was during ***. No reason to believe that any known or established personas would've wanted her dead. Therefore, it must be an unknown one, which must've occured not long before Midian. Incidently, this is why I believe that there were other auras between Kava and Midian. Neither would've killed Traziun's mother...

Well, that was long! Thanks for organising the Rhue theories.

PS: Now that Venge no longer has the Illuminati, not only does it lead to the demise of the PS and the Mimic, but it would seem that our pal "Rhue" is once again able to age and die. He can live a relatively normal life.

[Asra]

You also need to remember that the sword wants specific auras, mainly those with strong goals and motivation. Kura wanted to be the best(?), Kava wanted to avenge his love interest, but after that his goal would essentially be complete, unless he went around killing as many guided as he possibly could. So then somehow the sword absorbed Midian, whose entire goal in life was to kill Jeruh. Then Jeruh dies and Rhue is born, and now Jeruh's lone goal is solved and there is nothing holding him back anymore. He just needs to watch out for who he kills though in case that happens again.

[Swicord]

PS: Now that Venge no longer has the Illuminati, not only does it lead to the demise of the PS and the Mimic, but it would seem that our pal "Rhue" is once again able to age and die. He can live a relatively normal life.

That is true assuming that the default ending is the real ending. If the Lexus ending is the real ending (as hinted at by fwacho), then Venge still has the sword.

Overall though, this seems to be a pretty good timeline.

[Requiem]

Thanatos,

Though I am glad that I have stirred a thoughtful and very possible argument from you with my post, I still have to disagree.

If Rhue was indeed Venge, and further more, a "half-breed", I feel that it would have made its point known in a much larger fashion. Rhue never exhibits the capacity for incredibly demonic activity, beyond the point of a very enraged human being.

Assuming that Rhue was originally Venge: Why would he look so human? The vast number of creatures we have fought that hailed from the pits looked a far cry from your average wanderer.
If, however, Rhue was originally a Hero of Janwen, he would look perfectly normal.
But let's say Venge did look human, or had some sort of shape shifting ability.

Why would the Lord Below nuture him as his son until then? Now I'm assuming, and this is an assumption only, that the Lord Below doesn't care much for Wanderers, seeing as he makes it a routine thing to kill and torture them. If his son was part human, I would believe that he would either have been killed right off or placed in rather unhappy circumstances.

There simply not enough of a hint in game to lead me to believe that Rhue is of demonic origins. I feel if that were the case, it would have played a more vital role in the storyline. For example, Rhue might have "resorted" to his demonic nature, or at least exhibited it a little more strongly.
Also, Rhue's liking caves doesn't necessarily mean he was -originally- Venge. It could very well be residue from that aura or, here's a thought, maybe Jeruh had to go into hiding after the massacre and grew accustomed to the caves in which he sought refuge.

So I'm going to stick to my original theory, though I do greatly appreciate the feedback.

I'm making contributions to the community, yay~!

[Swicord]

If Rhue was indeed Venge, and further more, a "half-breed", I feel that it would have made its point known in a much larger fashion. Rhue never exhibits the capacity for incredibly demonic activity, beyond the point of a very enraged human being.

I'd say that flying through the air in the blink of an eye constitutes quite a capacity.

[Imoto]

It's is entirely possible that the lord below thought to make a human tainted by his inlfuence, by creating a child within a woman, so that he may have someone to carry out his intentions on the surface, and possibly hide within the human society.

And then Venge decided he didn't feel like it and tried to kill his dad.

And fails, but ends up caught in the aura raping wave, and ends up in the situation where the sword keeps trying to make him do things using other auras to take dominance over his own broken one. The Lexus nding could be the first time he actually regains his "self". In which case he'd probably want to fix his original aura if he can, and kill his dad for causing him so much trouble.

Venge might not have had any hugely exceptional abilities, but Rhue's actions have often ended up rather brutal. His flying off at the end of the Lexus ending could imply some sort of power from his original aura though.