The Real Question

[Noodles]

I'm happy with the idea that there is land beyond the end and begin of the way.. It certainly seems a bit limited to think that there is nothing past that...

But after so much has been said about the mists, they should exist either in some form... If only figuratively, it would have to be a very good figurative form rather then something vague like a side note.


It is an assumption that Rhue recalled the end of the way because he had been there before... Considering the end of the way was suppose to be in that cave where you plunge with Strata, Rhue should have been at a point that was past the end of the way. And if that is so, I do not see why he remembers that place with any specific significance in the landorin mascare incident, why not 100 meters north of that point? Why not a mile East?

Its possible that the reason Rhue saw what becomes the end of the way in his memories specifically because it was some kind of premenition of an end to all of what he believed... or perhaps the end of the way changes appearance to always look like that and he was standing at what was the end of the way at that time.

[hero_bash]

maybe the rolling mists are storms and there is no end of the way?

[Alundra]

you know, it suddenly struck me... Did anyone bother to play grandia... Mostly overestimated or underestimated, I kinda liked it back when I played it. (had some pretty funny moments)

It also depicted a story about a boy looking for the end of the world...
Which was supposedly a big huge wall, which none could cross...
BUT THERE WAS a continent on the other side...
The wall was a remnant of the past, a wall to protect one side from the other. And on the one 'uncharted' side the hero of the story finds truth about his world, and a very advanced technology...

The mists might be an exagerated version of protection to just keep ppl from going trough. Why? to protect something behind it?
If the citadels were built by hands (not even saying human) and they're just remnants of the past on one side, there might be working ones (if they actually do somthing or are used for a specific purpose) on the other side of the mists (but that's only if they were to stick in the same place, which is contrary to the story spread across the way.)
So this puts in my mind, what if the mists don't move, but the way does, kinda like a longplay record... Those on top of the record wouldn't notice the movement, as we don't do it on our own world either ^_^ yeah, earth's turning underneath your feet now dudes

ANYWAY long post short: it might exists as an artificial barrier to keep a specific secret... now is there anyone who didn't already know that kinda makes this a useless post, yet might stirr some thought ...

[Sarcasm]

ANYWAY long post short: it might exists as an artificial barrier to keep secrets... ...

Thats what I've been telling you people the whole time yet you continued to ignore me >_>

Exactly, I believe that The Way is in fact a huge, possibly larger then our own Europe, piece of land, and the guided are guiding all the Wanderers in circles using the mists, The mists could not exist and simply be legends spread by the guided, Or the mists could actually be creations of the guided, it matters not. The "mists" push the wanderers from behind, and prevent them from advancing too far, I believe going to the side is possible, but one would either reach the sea, or face an impassable mountain or other obstacles.

most of the guided could live in other parts of the plant, while the guided that are on the actual way could be living behind, or in front, of either part of the mists, and the wanderers would never find out.

as time goes on the guided keep moving the mists from both sides to keep guiding the wanderers on The Way

[Bryjnar]

ANYWAY long post short: it might exists as an artificial barrier to keep secrets... ...

Thats what I've been telling you people the whole time yet you continued to ignore me >_>

I don't think anyone's been ignoring you, we just happen to disagree and you haven't convinced us yet.

Occam's Razor, which is being bandied about so much at the moment, merely suggests that, given two consistent theories that fit the evidence, the simpler one is likely to be the correct one. However, whether this applies equally to fiction is another matter; Lun could have created some labyrinthine plot quite easily and we would have little or no idea. We have to assume it applies, otherwise we'd have to treat theories that the whole thing is a metaphor for the Matrix as seriously as anything else. We don't have all the evidence, and most of the "theories" we have are just speculation. What evidence do we have about the mists? Very little, mostly just the short speech of a man which may or may not be a metaphor. And if it is, then it is concievable that the "mists" might just be a construction of the Guided. There's no reason to prefer this theory to any other, as there is no real evidence. So please stop applying a tool for clarifying logical reasoning where it isn't appropriate

[Sarcasm]

I was not,

if you would actually bother to read my argument with Masked Gamer you would notice that I was merely pointing out his wide usage of the razor, my own usage of it was mainly conceived to ridicule his own.

So please, before you attempt to tear another man's point apart, make sure it is indeed his point.

secondly, I have never claimed my theory to be superior to any other, I was just attempting to strengthen it in the first few two posts. and perhaps you weren't ignoring my theory, But certain other individuals were.

[hero_bash]

but who built the rolling mists and citadels... what was the beginning of the way..

[Bryjnar]

I was not,

if you would actually bother to read my argument with Masked Gamer you would notice that I was merely pointing out his wide usage of the razor, my own usage of it was mainly conceived to ridicule his own.

So please, before you attempt to tear another man's point apart, make sure it is indeed his point.

secondly, I have never claimed my theory to be superior to any other, I was just attempting to strengthen it in the first few two posts. and perhaps you weren't ignoring my theory, But certain other individuals were.

Uh, who says I was talking about you? Paragraphs generally indicate a change of subject: I mentioned that you weren't being ignored, then discussed the general usage of the Razor in this thread. Stop taking things so personally. I can see how you would think it was addressed to you, but that was not the intention.

As for your theory; you obviously believe it is superior, otherwise you wouldn't believe it There's nothing wrong with believing in your own theory, I'm just saying that there really isn't enough evidence either way.

[Elachim]

It's heating up...



I always thought that the Arm of Estrana, or at least the Phantom's Blade in DE was (or used to be) a Citadel. It's big and tall, you can't get in it unless you're someone special or whatever, it's forboding (Traziun said people usually avoid them), and get this - it's sticking straight up from the ruins of Janwen. Could the Citadels be some kind of incarnation of the shadow swords or illuminati?


ed. Isn't Kalmar's fortress or whatever called the Black Citadel? Or at least that's what I called it in my head. I tried to find where I got that from but I'm still looking... nothing yet.

[Sarcasm]

Alas, Ironically my words apply more to myself then to anyone else, I should really read your words more carefully next time, My apologies.

[Alundra]

[quote="Elachim"]It's heating up...



I always thought that the Arm of Estrana, or at least the Phantom's Blade in DE was (or used to be) a Citadel. It's big and tall, you can't get in it unless you're someone special or whatever, it's forboding (Traziun said people usually avoid them), and get this - it's sticking straight up from the ruins of Janwen. Could the Citadels be some kind of incarnation of the shadow swords or illuminati?


ed. Isn't Kalmar's fortress or whatever called the Black Citadel? Or at least that's what I called it in my head. I tried to find where I got that from but I'm still looking... nothing yet.[/quote]

Same tought once crossed my mind too. Besides, the citadels are so called support structures right? and what if the theories in that other forum are right? if the citadels are the support collums of the upper way, which is where rhue goes when going up the arm of estrana.... (maybe not sure though...) might all make sense... yet it isn't the same shape or colour...

[Bryjnar]

If you have to apologise, apologise with grace Apology accepted, Sarcasm, and please accept my own for possibly being a bit patronising.

The only problem is that DE is, well, a Dream. It's all in Rhue's head. I suppose it could be an imaginary Citadel, if Rhue even knows what they are.

Talking about the swords as the Citadels is very interesting... perhaps the uncorrupted Illuminati were in fact the "Citadels", acting as a channel for Order, or whatever, to flow down from the Upper Way. After all, if they're support structures, who says it's the Upper Way that needs supporting? Perhaps the Order flowing from the Illuminati was all that was stopping the Middle Way from sinking down into the Reaches. In which case they'd be royally screwed now

[Sling]

*RANDOM ALERT*
This thought came to other day, whilst re-playing episode 5. Okay, cast your minds back to when you leave Estrana. You come to the stretch of Laodicea. After a while Kloe gets a rock in her boot. After awhile, Cetsa pushes Kloe in the river. Okay think back to the flashback which occurs after which shows Kloe and Cetsa fighting over the pendant etx. Has anyone ever noticed that the piece of land they are standing on is exactly the same as the spot Serena gets pushed in the river just in reverse.

[Alundra]

indeed I already thought it to be the exact opposite bank of that river... but the ending in episode 6 depicts the background to be at a different place much more like the story rhue tells traz about serena...
so basically they were standing on the opposite of the end of the way if they are on the other bank of the spot where gaius and rhue are at the beginning of episode 6...
so... which leads to the question... HOW MUCH CAN WE TRUST THE BACKPANS? and other chipsets...

[dyyhpys]

I looked at the two places, and they do seem to be the same river but they are not oppisite banks, because in the kloe and cesta flashback the river is wider. The part that is shown in the kloe/cesta flashback would have to be close to Delhara to, because that was were trazuin pulled Kloe out of the river.