Traziun : I'm so sad ... and angry

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Traziun : I'm so sad ... and angry

Postby All Along the Way » Wed Sep 06, 2006 7:51 pm

I hope this won't start a flame. :wink:
It's just to know if other felt like this.

I am still sad, months after Traziun is dead. I am also angry, too.

I'm angry first because I loved him ... and I lost him.
Traziun is pure emotion and full of thrills. He was my mentor, my big brother. I learned my first blade art with him. He has an awesome sprite and faceset. He is finally a formidable warrior and a bright one too! (booo Strata)

Yet, I am also angry because he was the only one to know Kalmar's plots. He has his father in his head since he's killing him (Yuck!).

He might also be the only one to know what's in Gaius's heart.
Is Gaius :
A) a good-natured senser; perfect justice righteously executing criminals, murderers and shadow swords? He wouldn't be merciless justice because he refrains twice from executing Kloe
B) Kalmar's tool to destroy the guided? (probably passing as Tetzel's trusted man and leading the guided rebels to their deaths ... and some more)
C) Tetzel himself
D) a mastermind double-crossing Kalmar? In that case Kalmar might not know, or only have doubts.
E) most importlantly, is he doing any or all of this for common good or for himself ?

Finally, I'm very angry at Traziun because he (and his father's presence) probably knew

what * Lun * will * never * tell * us!!

The rolling mists,
the upper and lower ways,
the citadel,
auras, illuminati and shadow swords,
Gaius again,
Rhue's backstory and if he was involved in Kalmar's plans,
and sweet flaming Lands, The Purpose!

We'll never know now that he is dead.


Ah, to love -even his brother- is to be angry.
:wink:
They may forget all you said,
They may forget all you did,
But they'll never forget
How you made them feel.
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Postby Kanifer » Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:04 am

Why be angry and sad... when you can get the Lexus ending... where Traziun doesn't die. :wink:

Should I send you a save with a Lexus ending or do you want to try to get it yourself? Or did you already see it?
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Touché! I bleed...

Postby All Along the Way » Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:13 am

Escapism my son, escapism my son Kanifer! Didn't you know (hum hum yes know) that the Lexus ending is allll about escapism! :wink:

I was afraid someone would talk about the 3 endings. You've got me there Kanifer. Thanks for saved game the offer, too.

I've just replayed the 3 endings.

I could put a disclaimer : "this post applies fully to the default ending only". I could let go at that. However, it might apply to the other endings too. There is no garantee that Traziun won't use the hara-kiri solution. There is so much we don't know in the future of the other endings.

In the Lexus ending that you suggest: I have a hard time deciding if Rhue stays forever in Dream Estrana or if he keeps in touch with the real world from time to time. Anyways, there is a chance that Traziun will hunt the sword - to destroy it by hara-kiri again. Ask Kalmar (and Red Swiftfeet) how good a hunter Traziun is.

In the Reaches ending : I understood that Rhue stays under the Phantom Slasher's control. Then, we don't know what happens in the confrontation between Gaius, the sword and Traziun. The Phantom Slasher wants to survive. Hopefully, Gaius destroys the sword and Traziun lives (as for Rhue, mystery ?). Maybe Traziun destroys the Phantom Slasher in the same way as in the default ending. GRR Anger and Sadness GRR Maybe there's a chaotic messy brawl since neither the Phantom Slasher, Gaius and Traziun will let go. Someone is going to be hurt. Add to that a possible minor intervention from Strata and Kloe.

Stirring up a wasp's nest
Finally, we could start again an old discussion about which is the real, genuine, 100% right, most important ending. I hope it never gets settled.

Maybe the Lexus ending is escapism after all ... but escapism from Traziun's death in another ending :wink: !
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They may forget all you did,
But they'll never forget
How you made them feel.
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Postby Sling » Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:24 am

Maybe Traziun comes back to life?
In this day and age, an era where there are people who actually throw shit at each other, anything, could be possible.
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Traziun coming back - dreams, dreams, dreams

Postby All Along the Way » Thu Sep 07, 2006 11:05 am

I' d applaud that, Sling!

Are you serious, though? Wouldn't it be too much cliché?

All in all, I don't think Traziun can come back to the "real, living" middle Way. It sounds like wishful thinking. There are obviously ways for his aura to be present, though. I had not thought about these possibilities before.

(A) The next person to pick up Night Reaper would get Traziun in it. I can't be sure, since Traziun wasn't killed by that sword. His aura was close enough to be absorbed, though. No more sadness ! Uhm, unless Gaius destroys that shadow sword too...

(B) I've even considered that an Illuminati was born somewhere - maybe with Traziun's aura. Traziun vengence (a tainted justice) was changed to sacrifice (a purer justice?) to destroy a shadow sword. Would that be intense enough to create an Illuminati?

(C) Finally, the scariest idea is that Gaius' sword might have absorbed Traziun's aura. Would an illuminati do that (that's if Gaius has an illuminati )? I call that scary because Gaius executes vile criminals. Imagine having bits of a multitude of criminals in your mind (Yuck!). No wonder Gaius would have an inner darkness!
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Postby Elachim » Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:40 pm

If Traziun were to destroy the sword in the Lexus ending, wouldn't that also destroy DE? That way we can conclude that if you take the Lexus ending, Traziun does not go all heroically suicidal. Two points for escapism! :lol:

I think the Kloe ending is the "real" one. And thanks to All Along the Way, I have a new reason: Traziun's death means Lun doesn't have to disclose anything!
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Postby Sarcasm » Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:10 pm

Traziun and Gaius die in the Reaches ending

after all, they directly speak with Rhue in his dream world,

which he now fully controls thanks to finding out the truth.

The question is, did Rhue chose to rule this little world as a god, or to face reality? it was rather clear the Phantom Slasher was not threatening him anymore, Why, you ask?

By killing the demon spawns Rhue has cleansed the sword, "uncorrupted" it. It is now an Illuminati once again, not a shadow sword.

But alas, Truth and justice has its price, While the battle raged on in Rhue's Mindscape/the sword, Rhue's body was taken over by the corrupted side of the Phantom Slasher, killing all the characters that were near him. . .

Thing is, Now that Rhue has found out the truth, does he really wants to return to the "real world", Or did he realize that living within the sword is the same as living in the real world, because, in the end, they are very much the same?

I suspect that Rhue's last words have hinted that he will, as he has put it, keep searching, Keep following the dream, Even if he knows the truth about Serena, he does not wishes to give up his search for her, and in one form or another, he may indeed find her.
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Postby Angel_OA » Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:30 pm

When would he have time to murder Gaius and Traziun, or did he absorb them from somewhere else - i.e the phantom slasher?
Also, in that ending, he must have absorbed the reaches as well. Man, he's been busy.
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Postby Sarcasm » Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:34 pm

Was that supposed to be sarcastic? The upper way and the Reaches are each the respective "mindscapes" of each side of the sword, the Phantom Slasher is their combined form, their will and arm.

If Rhue would get fully Ubered up, he could murder Traziun and Gaius in three or so seconds while fighting the sword's dark side.
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Postby Angel_OA » Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:34 pm

No, that wasn't meant to be sarcastic. Also, what evidence is there for the whole mindscapes theory? (I'm not being belligerent by the way.)
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Postby Sarcasm » Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:42 pm

It just seems to be the most logical one for me, and so far I haven't seen a better explanation for the Reaches ending.

It reallies on a Shadow Sword simply being a corrupted Illuminati, and Arctura's and its Nemesis symbolic opposing placings within the sword. As well as a bunch of other symbolic subtle philosophical meanings such as the black shoals representing Transcendence, reaching new heights, leaving the sea of lies and facing the glorious yet scorching light of the truth.

It is not very Occam's Razor friendly, that is, unless you people will help me with it.
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Wow, good fun and insight! :P

Postby All Along the Way » Thu Sep 07, 2006 6:46 pm

Elachim : What a good-humored way to be logical! I agree that for Lun (and the story) it's better we don't know all Traziun does. Yet, I want to know :roll: It's like an itch begging to be scratched.

Sarcasm and Angel_OA : You made me think further. I'll read some more about the endings (and play episode 6 again).

Has anyone been angry at Traziun because they lost him?
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Postby Masked Gamer » Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:51 pm

Death is a small price to pay for Traziun IMO. That leaves me plenty satisfied. He got exactly what he wanted and more by ending himself that way.

As for the whole mindscape theory, I'd suggest its more allegorical than metaphorical. I do see what you mean about the philosophical meanings of various parts of DE, but at the same time, it is strongly suggested that everything inside the sword has simply been absorbed by PS. Even the Reaches makes sense if you believe in the whole Venge theory.
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Postby Sarcasm » Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:16 am

Personally, I suspect it could easily be both.
Things could get absorbed, and then twisted.
Much like a shadow sword is a twisted mirror of an Illuminati, the same could hold true to what it holds within.

And yes, this theory is supported by the Venge\shockwave one.

All Along the Way: Sorry for half-stealing your thread
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Postby Kanifer » Fri Sep 08, 2006 6:55 am

Wow, that got some replies pretty quickly.

Hmm, about the Lexus ending being escapism and being the most right ending: I kind of disagree, seeing as how giving in to being in love with an aura (Lexus) gave him great power. (Just look at him fly at the end of ep 6!) I think that power will be necessary if he wishes to face the Lord Below and Tetzel and other powerful entities later. Somehow looking at Chloe and Rhue walking away from the sword, I don't think he can face his future nemeses in that state.

I personally didn't like Lexus as much as I liked Cetsa, (She was slowly changing her ways, I always like a repenting character... especially one as hot as Cetsa :P) but hey, who knows what will happen. Maybe Rhue will eventually part with Lexus, if the sword is somehow destroyed later and get together with Cetsa. I'd love to see that. ^^
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