Theory about the Phantom Slasher

[JLAF]

I wouldn't call her a major character. The only thing of any importance involving her is the intentional lack of name.

Well, he seemed like a big charecter in e6. I mean, you start in her house, for the first chunk of the game she's the one you go to for answers, and she's also one of the dead girls in the reaches ending. But I can see you're point. Her importance really starts to fade after the dinner party, and outside of e6, she doesn't even exist for more than one short scene.

Hell, maby Lun was just out of good names and decided it wasnt important enough to worry about.

HERESY!

[MusashiEX]

The hole in this theory is that you assumed that auras captured aren't combined with the dominating aura, but instead, stays in the shadow sword. If that is true, for your theory to work, Jeruh's shadow sword has to be Rhue's shadow sword. Just like you said. The thing is, that Rhue was known to Kavax as Kura. This is before the Ladorin Massacre. This means that Rhue must have lost the Shadow Sword, and found it again after Jeruh lost it. That seems too surreal to me. How would Rhue find the sword?

[JLAF]

Wow... someone understood that garble I wrote...
First off, I don't see why the swords HAVE to be the same unless some of the auras from the Ladorin Massacre are in dream Estrana, which remains to be seen. Second, I'm not quite assuming that the auras stay with the sword. I have evidence... but I still can't figure out how to articulate it... Whatever, let me give it another shot. Please, be specific if you don't understand what I'm saying at any part during this explanation.

Back in e4 in Jopaga's lab, we saw Cade get his aura removed, and then absorbed by Rhue, all while he was still alive. This demonstrates that shadow swords don't absorb the auras of the dead, but instead the auras which aren't bound to anything.
The Woman in red says that the auras are bound to the sword. So the auras should still be bound when someone is killed unless the sword is destroyed. Which means that the auras shouldn't all go to the victorious sword unless a sword is destroyed.
Also, I noticed sage asks how this goes against his theory. I was just referring to the last part where he says the victor gets all the auras.

Wow, having sleep really lets me say thinks quicker and clearer... I hope.

As for Rhue losing than regaining the sword seeming surreal, I know exactly what you mean. I felt the same way when I first thought of this. However, I now realize that it's not as weird as you may think. Let me tell you what I think happened...
When Jeruh picked up his sword there were two men, right? One was dead and the other didn't say anything. Now, I think the person who didn't say anything was in the middle of changing personalities. Otherwise, he wouldn't have let Jeruh take his sword. After all, if Rhue is any judge, which he probably is since he's the one I'm talking about, shadow sword wielders are obsessed with their swords.
Jeruh then goes off and does the massacre. Meanwhile, the original owner of the shadow sword finishes changing personalities. Waking up, the guy would be obsessed with getting his sword back. So he hunts down Jeruh for as long as it takes, and then steals his sword back. Now I realize that it'd be hard to take something from a shadow sword wielder, but remember that Jeruh was just a kid.
So yeah, I have almost no evidence to support that this was what happened. But provided Rhue was the one who Jeruh took his shadow sword from, its not all that unlikely.

[Sage Of The Wise]

Also, I noticed sage asks how this goes against his theory. I was just referring to the last part where he says the victor gets all the auras.

No, I said that he would get the aura of the other person. This aura, accordingto the first half of my theory, would be patched up with many other auras, so, while still just being that one persons aura, it pieces of many auras.

Ofcourse, this is assuming the auras absorbed by a shadow sword arent dispersed when its wielder is killed. This is your assumption. I believe they do disperse, seeing how its pretty much said by the red haired woman.

It's only a matter of time after this occurs that the wielder then kills themself, dispersing the auras and destroying the connections made to them by the Shadow Sword.

Now unless suicide has different effects then being killed, none of it matters since the auras would be dispersed, and logically, be absorbed by the others sword.

Now, where my theory comes back into play now that I've established that the "victor gets all", as you put it, is when Rhue kills Jeruh. Since Jeruh no longer has his shadow sword, there are no auras for Rhue to absorb, other than Jeruh himself. Which would still be patched up with other auras. Thats how Rhue could get them. Ofcourse all this does make the "Serena is the girl" theory slightly more believable, and I don't even believe that, so why am I proving all this?

When Jeruh picked up his sword there were two men, right? One was dead and the other didn't say anything. Now, I think the person who didn't say anything was in the middle of changing personalities.

We saw Rhue change personalities once, and he never went catatonic.

[JLAF]

Ofcourse, this is assuming the auras absorbed by a shadow sword arent dispersed when its wielder is killed. This is your assumption. I believe they do disperse, seeing how its pretty much said by the red haired woman.

It's only a matter of time after this occurs that the wielder then kills themself, dispersing the auras and destroying the connections made to them by the Shadow Sword.

Now unless suicide has different effects then being killed, none of it matters since the auras would be dispersed, and logically, be absorbed by the others sword.

I feel stupid for forgetting about that line. I might know how suicide and killing are different though.
The swords are self righteous, and they always think they are doing great deeds. So when a wielder uses a shadow sword for suicide, the sword would then think it was killing someone who was always doing good things. Then it would be destroyed and the auras set free.
Just thought of that so it's probably got a bunch of holes it it but I'm too tired to think anymore. (It's exhausting for me to think even when I'm not tired!)

Now, where my theory comes back into play now that I've established that the "victor gets all", as you put it, is when Rhue kills Jeruh. Since Jeruh no longer has his shadow sword, there are no auras for Rhue to absorb, other than Jeruh himself. Which would still be patched up with other auras. Thats how Rhue could get them.

Never thought of that one.

Ofcourse all this does make the "Serena is the girl" theory slightly more believable, and I don't even believe that, so why am I proving all this?

Donno... The debates got tangled together in weird ways...

We saw Rhue change personalities once, and he never went catatonic.

The screen fades to white directly before the personality switch. I had always assumed that an undetermined amount of time had passed while the screen was white. I guess it never occurred to me that it could just be a graphical effect.
There was also the period before that where Rhue just sat there. He was conscious, but didn't move. He probably still would have at least said something if he saw Jeruh was taking his sword though.

[Sling]

I hate to say this but JLAF's theory of Jeruh nabbing Rhue's sword whilst he was spazzing out after killing someone and Rhue going schizo and hunting Jeruh down actually sounds hideously plausible.

[JLAF]

Sling, I love you're use of adjectives.

This topic has actually raised some questions for me. First off, is Rhue the only one to changes personalities without killing himself? The women in red seems to say that most people just accumulate them until the original aura is destroyed, and then all the auras come in at once and they kill themselves.

After a certain limit the original aura's bonds to its soul and body are suddenly snapped and the other auras rush into the opening. The soul and body desperately begin to form new connections with the chaotic mass of invading auras which ends up driving the wielder into a state of multiple personality, suicidal madness. It's only a matter of time after this occurs that the wielder then kills themself, dispersing the auras and destroying the connections made to them by the Shadow Sword.

First off, themself isn't a word. Shouldn't that be themselves? Or just use "it" in place of all the "them"s? Lun is confusing his pluralities?
More on topic... Rhue on the other hand clearly has a dominant aura, and all the other auras don't seem to be enough to drive him insane. This seems especially likely considering how old we think Rhue is. Plus the woman in red mentions that someone who may or may not be Rhue (there's an argument to be made on both sides) managed to get around the problem, but only partially. Which seems very similar to Rhue's dominant aura which retains sanity but still has those other auras giving him weird memories and such. Plus there are these quotes:

WOMAN: Of course you aren't him... it doesn't matter what your face looks like.

WOMAN: Always changing... You're not going to hurt me?

WOMAN: I know a man who's been in possession of a Shadow Sword for quite some time.
WOMAN: I would guess that it has been in his possession for the last few hundred years.

If Rhue and this guy are one in the same, they would imply that other people don't change auras like Rhue does. Plus, there can only be one mimic.

Anyway, this leads me into my other question/theory. Which, ironically, is a Theory about the Phantom Slasher. Note before hand that I'm not confident in this theory, and I'm not even sure if I believe it myself, but I figure I'll throw it out there.
More about the women in red. As I've said, she SEEMS to be talking about Rhue when she mentions the guy who manage to avoid killing himself. However, she always refers to that guy in the 3rd person, instead of the 2nd. But more importantly, she says this:

WOMAN: Don't ask me. I do know that if you did find him, he wouldn't talk to you. He would only destroy you.

Rhue does talk, as does Kalmar. This line is what got me thinking that the person she's talking about is the PS. If she is talking about the PS, this could explain how both Rhue and this person who doesn't quite fit Rhue's description managed to live for so long.
Perhaps the PS sealed it's original aura into the shadow sword (or did something else to make it the PS) in order to avoid the strain from the other auras, and now chooses what auras Rhue uses in order to stop him from going insane? I don't know, like I said, I'm just throwing it out there. Just seems to me that she's talking about the PS.

On a side note, the only change lun seems to have made in the women in red's convo between v1 and v2 is the addition of this line:

Just kill me I'm not afraid anymore. I've been afraid for too long.

However, I did not do a very thorough check.

[MusashiEX]

After a while, I guess "Rhue" goes into a dream world and kills all the auras so that he doesn't have to kill himself.

[Sage Of The Wise]

Rhue does talk, as does Kalmar. This line is what got me thinking that the person she's talking about is the PS.

Even the PS talks in the the final plunge, and the Reaches ending.

Just kill me I'm not afraid anymore. I've been afraid for too long.

Hmmm... that kind of helps the one of the main theories about her. That being thats shes Traz's mom and Kalmar's wife. The man she's reffering to is Kalmar, and shes thinks Rhue will kill her since he did kill her. The reasoning behind the first part is the red hair, that "traz's theme" plays during the scene, and it explains how she would know Kalmar. The problem is people dont remember there deaths so she wouldn't remember Rhue. The only explanation I could give is that Rhue trying to kill her was a long term thing, so she would still remember Rhue trying to kill her. That new quote kind of implies this long term thing.
The problem ofcourse is why Rhue would kill her, and I havent a clue. I'm not sure I believe this all myself, but its does explain it most of it based off what we know.

[Angel_OA]

Is Rhue the only one to changes personalities without killing himself?

I thought so. Or rather, he's the only one to survive the changing personalities.

[JLAF]

Even the PS talks in the the final plunge, and the Reaches ending.

True, but that's the only time he ever talks. And it's in dream Estrana (not exactly with the reaches ending but you know what I mean), and that might also make a difference. Remember the time in normal Estrana when the PS killed a bunch of "blue scarves" and saved some lady, and when the lady tried to talk to the PS, he was silent for a second and then killed her? And also the PS is always very silent in the real world. Plus I just couldn't think of anyone else who would fit the description of killing you if you tried to talk to them... Like I said, I'm not too sure about the whole thing.

[High Gravekeeper]

The PS isn't exactly someone with a shadow sword, it is implied that was somehow created by the shadow sword as a protector of some sort or as a manifestation of the shadow sword.

[The Owl]

However, I would like to point out that it's not as inconceivable as it may seem for Rhue to lose the sword to Jeruh and then get it back. Let me explain:
Rhue killed someone near the Landorin Massacre. At this point he starts to change auras. Jeruh comes up. This explains why one guy is dead and the other is silent. Jeruh then does the massacre thing. Rhue wakes up, and wants his sword (since he's like that). Rhue then hunts down Jeruh and gets the sword back fairly easily (since he's a lot bigger).

There's a problem with this, however. First, let's consider Midian. In the cell at the top of the Phantom's Blade, Midian says he was there at the Landorin Massacre when Jeruh killed Serena. He also says that after that, he spent several years training with the sword and hunting Jeruh, but eventually lost motivation. We also know, by virtue of the fact that he's in Dream Estrana, Midian was killed by the sword Phantom Slasher.

Now, we also know from the headhunter on the Marna Stretch in Episode 2 that at some point, the person we now know as Rhue was introducing himself as Midian. Names are very carefully picked in The Way, and to the best of my knowledge, there is no name that is used for more than one character. In the normal ending, Gaius reveals that he and proto-Rhue pursued and killed Jeruh.

Finally, we also see in the normal ending that proto-Rhue will sometimes change personalities upon absorbing a new aura into his sword. Whether this is instantaneous or not is immaterial to this argument.

With all these facts in mind, here's the point I'm driving at: Jeruh could not possibly have committed the Landorin Massacre with proto-Rhue's shadow sword. Why? Because proto-Rhue never lost his sword to Jeruh. The facts that support this:

1) Proto-Rhue introduced himself as Midian at some point. As we know he can change personalities upon absorbing a new aura, it's logical to conclude that he killed Midian and changed personalities to Midian.

2) In order to do this, proto-Rhue must have had his shadow sword when he killed Midian (or Midian died). Otherwise, he would have had no way to obtain Midian's aura and certainly wouldn't have changed personalities to Midian.

3) This is more circumstantial, and I'm a bit trepiditious about posting it, but in the same scene at the top of the Phantom's Blade, the unresponsive man that Jeruh takes his sword from does not look like proto-Rhue at all. Even accounting for the angle and possible body shape changes, it just does not look like proto-Rhue.

In fact, it does not logically follow that the sword Jeruh did the Landorin Massacre with was necessarily a Shadow Sword at all. First off, in the Phantom's Blade flashback(I'm using that scene a lot, aren't I?) Jeruh is clearly shown as a small child when he does the massacre. In the normal ending, when proto-Rhue kills him, Jeruh is older, roughly a teenager or maybe into his twenties. According to the Red Woman, those with Shadow Swords do not age physically. If we assume Jeruh did all the killings with a Shadow Sword, he probably would have kept it with him, judging from Rhue's behavior. If he did, Jeruh would have remained a little boy until the day Midian-Rhue killed him. As he clearly grew in the years since the massacre, we can conclude that Jeruh did not have a Shadow Sword at all.

As for Jeruh's assertions that "the sword was crying out for blood" (or something to that effect), Jeruh is clearly a lonely child at this time. He has found what he believes to be a symbol of power and respect that will give the other children no option but to worship him as the ringleader. At the moment he leaps from the bushes to begin killing, he has Columbine Syndrome - he is a lonely child with nothing to live for, seeking revenge agains those he percieves as having wronged him. Also, when recounting the massacre, Jeruh is horrified by the truth that he repressed, so all of his words in the Phantom's Blade scene have to be taken with a grain of salt. Seen in this light, it's totally possible that Jeruh could have been romanticizing the sword and confusing his own feelings with those of his sword's.

And just for kicks, here's my personal theory on the Phantom Slasher. I believe the sword is sentient and constantly desires more power, which it acquires through auras. To that end, the Phantom Slasher we see in the game (the dark, shadowy figure that seemingly kills at random) is an astral projection, if you will, of the sword's will. The sword has been absorbing auras for hundreds if not thousands of years, so its projection is powerful enough to kill most wanderers in a single sword blow. However, to acquire enough auras to be able to do this, the sword needs its wielder to kill ever more wanderers. So the sword's carrier (proto-Rhue) is subtly influenced to kill more and more people any way he can. To aid this pursuit, the sword examines the auras it absorbs and looks for those with murderous intentions. It selects the one with the most motivation to go out and kill people and impresses that personality on its carrier. This is how proto-Rhue can go from being Midian one minute to Rhue the next, as well as why he does - though the real Midian had given up hunting Jeruh, the sword did not see fit to impress that part of the personality into proto-Rhue, instead only giving him the "must hunt Jeruh" programming. When Jeruh was killed, Midian-Rhue had no more motivation to kill wanderers, and so was an unacceptable personality for the sword's carrier. Jeruh's fundamental instability and aggression worked far better for the PS's purposes, and so proto-Rhue's personality changed, becoming the Rhue we all know and love.

[MusashiEX]

I was trying to say that, but I can't manipulate words that well.

[Sage Of The Wise]

Owl, if I'm reading your post right, your entire chain of evidence has one big flaw. What you're saying is that Jeruh couldn't have Rhue's shadow sword because Rhue definatly had it when Midian was killed/died, which was before he killed Jeruh, and then you gone on about how Jeruh never had any shadow sword because he aged.
The problem is Jeruh says at some point he lost the sword, after which he changed his name to Rhue. This is why he still ages and is older when killed by Rhue. Jeruh doesn't have a shadow sword during that fight, which is shown by a: he gets his ass kicked in the fight and b: Rhue doesn't spontaneously knock Jeruhs sword into the sky like every other shadow sword he encounters.

As for your PS theory, I agree completly with the entire thing about the sword using auras it has to influence Rhue into killing. I've posted many times about that myself.