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There hasn't been a serious discussion here in quite some time, perhaps this can spark things off.

What are your views on the nature of the Shadow Swords? Along with their difference from the Illuminati? Has there been any information (From outside the game, like a hint from Fwacho or Lun) about this?


I personally believe that the Shadow Swords and the Illuminati function in almost the same way. The Illuminati strive towards impartial justice (The good of the way), working in a manner similar to Gaius. The Shadow Swords, as far as I can make out through the Tower endings, believe that they are doing "good", but their vision is skewed by whoever is wielding them.

This would also explain why the Phantom Slasher felt remorse for the Death of Traziun, Rhue, (or whatever you want to call him), did not believe he should die. Thus the sword was used to kill a person it considered good, and was destroyed.

Your views on this?

What do you mean by ''manners imilar to Gaius''?

The problem with your theory on why the shadow sword feels remorse is that it would also imply to Lyra's death as well. Or it implies that Rhue actually wanted Lyra to die. Which doesn't seem to be the case.

As for the nature of the shadow swords, I think its closer to the opposite of what you said. Each sword has its own goals, whatever it is, and get their weilder to carry it out. In Rhue's case the sword kept changing his aura to whatever one would be easy enough to get to kill many people. At one point hes Midian, hunting down Jeruh. Thats some guarranteed killing, then he actually acomplished his goal, so the aura switches to Jeruh. And, to put it very simply, Rhue pretty much goes on a killing spree for the next 6 episodes.

As for the illuminati, we know so little about them that I couldn't begin to get into the what they might have been about. Did Gaius have the last one? Probably, but its still based off assumptions which are based on other assumptions. Same with Gaius himself. Was he just Kalmar's tool? He have bigger plans? Haven't an idea, or any idea how to find out.

Lyra's death was unavoidable, the sword (and Rhue) didn't feel remorse because it couldn't have been stopped without his death. The death of Lexus didn't have much of a chance of being avoided. Traziun's suicide was unexpected, and unnecessary in Rhue's view, making the sword feel remorse.

I've looked through the older threads, and Fwacho agrees with the final comment in this thread: http://www.crestfallen.us/phpBB2/viewto ... ght=#52869.

You could argue whether or not Lyrra and Lexus's death were avoidable. For Lyrra atleast I can understand there being an exception due to Rhue's swords desire to attack other shadow swords, but you don't have that excuse with Lexus.(And conversly, you could argue that Traziun's death was unavoidable. If Traziun wants to kill himself, then god dammit, hes going to kill himself and no one can stop him. )

Also, the basis of the aregument is that the swords view is the wielders view. Remorse is still remorse whether the event was avoidable or not, the sword will still feel it no matter what according to your idea. And The fwacho quote just suggests the swords have a warped view of justice, I'm not dissputing that.

Maybe the shadow sword wanted to control Traziun next; or perhaps Gaius.

I think Grave meant that either Lyrra or Rhue would die, therefore Lyrra's death could be seen as unavoidable from Rhue's perspective.

Perhaps rather than remorse in an emotional light, we could look at remorse as it relates to the warped idea of justice that the sword seeks. Lexus death could be percieved as justice since she was involved with the criminal underworld in Estrana. Lyrra had intentions to harm, if not kill Strata, so that could be seen by the sword as injustice as well. The hole in this theory is that Traziun had killed his father along with numerous others, so how would his suicide be unjust and cause the sword to feel remorse?

Ideas, criticism?

Well, the Shadow Swords function as an instrument of justice. We know that Lyrra had gone on a small killing spree of her own when she picked up the sword, so maybe Rhue's sword saw her as a murderer too.

As for Lexus...we know she was an agent of the Arastotzi, so who's to say she didn't do her own share of killing while in their employment as Red Zero? We never saw her as a cold-blooded killer but that doesn't mean she never acted as one before Rhue met her. Just a few thoughts.