Truth, beliefs, and theories of The Way [TheoryExtravaganza]

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Re: Truth, beliefs, and theories of The Way [TheoryExtravaganza]

Postby Kcrazy » Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:41 am

Exactly, I hated that Eyashu was nothing more then a name drop. The story doesn't really give any information on him at all. Tetzel gets a little more attention but still, we don't really know anything about him. Since there both off screen character I feel inclined to believe they were part of the Mimic, but really no evidence at all to support it.
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Re: Truth, beliefs, and theories of The Way [TheoryExtravaga

Postby Sage Of The Wise » Fri Aug 19, 2011 3:50 pm

What about all the memories/player choices you get to make?
Remembering "Serena" with red, blond, or brown. Remembering her coming crying to you when they take the pendant; emotionless; or angry... Helping the cat, or leaving it alone; jumping over the river or using the bridge; punishing those who stole the pendant or not...

Are those completely false memories/fabricated by player choice (Rhue or Jeruh's Rhue?))?

I chose a red haired Serena... but in the big reveal in chapter 6; Serena had blonde hair...
Also the Lyrra/Midian/Jeruh location looked completely different than the one Rhue always remembers.

If that place *is* the End of the Way as Gaius likes to claim (Right?); then how does Rhue remember it?
Has he been there before? Why does he have detailed memories of a fake "Serena" (the player choices)? Could there be *another* Serena; that's not really Serena but someone that the original knew?

I'm fairly clueless without speculation on this matter...

I think the idea behind letting you choose different things about Serena was too hint that Rhue didn't actually know her like he claims/thinks he does, and alternatively make you doubt her existence, though that was proven wrong. They could just be things he subconsciously makes up on the spot to craft his perfect girl. It could also be memories from auras he absorbed, but at the very least the game makes it clear that he is the one choosing what happened, not any direct meddling by the PS or somthing.
Ok so Landorin, that scene we see 100 times over in Rhue's mind, turns out not to be Landorin at all as we see from the final version we see told by Jeruh and Midian. So for some reason in Rhue's memory the location has been replaced with "The End" of The Way (the name of which is a completely different discussion). Why? Maybe memories aren't complete and when the PS was patching together this persona another area got thrown in, also possible that the place has some significance to Rhue and its overriding the memory. As for how he has a memory of that place, either he or one of his auras has been there before. Which strongly implies that The Way is circular.


On Lexus Ending... and stuff (killed the Phantom Slasher shadow)

WHAT happens at the end? Dream Estrana? Upper Way? Phantom Slasher World?
How did so many people end up in the sword? Are they residents from everywhere; or are most of them from Estrana? Did Rhue somehow absorb most of Estrana's Auras when Sacrifa summoned destruction?

Rhue's been wandering in one form or another for a long long time, he's gotten many auras. And yes, his trek through Estrana after its destruction probably netted him 100's more.

Rhue from Dream Estrana not equaling Rhue in front of Gaius?

I personally, think they are the same; as much as one can be in a dreaming state. They both seemed to have the same personality and memories; although maybe slightly different. [Letting silent Slade join you? That's kind of odd...]

I don't see any reason to think they are different. And if I remember correctly Rhue initially assumes Slade is going to start something, and is only ok with it once he doesn't. Except the Lexus ending, whatever comes back to his body after he decides to stay with Lexus is probably something different.

Too many auras in one body usually causes the body to kill itself/go insane. That sort of seemed the case, when Rhue discovers the possiblity that he is just a figment of Jeruh's imagination. The other auras, Lyrra, Midian turn on him... "Who are you??"

It ends up with "Rhue" waking up? Or ending Dream Estrana? Or ridding himself of the other auras?
Lexus says, if you leave this place; I will be gone forever... Don't leave me...

But, if you stay; or if you leave her... That same Rhue wakes up?

He doesn't seem any different from the Rhue from before; except now he has the knowledge of his existence.
So, if Rhue *stays* in his dream world, or his phantom sword world... (or something else...?); how does he awaken the same person? But, not ridding himself of Lexus and the others?

I think Rhue as we know him stays with Lexus... where ever they are, in the sword I guess? Which leaves us wondering who is the one that defies Gauis in the last scene and flies away. One idea is that its the PS itself, I don't know if this makes sense though, because if the PS could take full control of its host, you think it would just do that, as opposed to just manipulating it. It could be some new dominant aura, or maybe Rhue's original personality. I like the latter because its the only thing I could think of that would be aware enough to say "I have no end". Also the flying, some manipulated aura probably can't do that.

Okay, what HAPPENS when "Rhue" wakes up and flys off? (going Neo and pissing off Gaius)

The whole flying off thing, no idea really. Best guess is Rhue's just tapping into the powers that have been suppressed all this time.(Which kinda goes into the Venge theory)


What is Dream Estrana?

Seems to be a manifestation of the auras absorbed by Rhue. It seems to be shaped by the auras currently residing. We first visit right after the destruction of Estrana and Rhue absorbing probably half the residents on the way out, so when we see it it reflects the destroyed city. Though it seems some older (or maybe stronger?) auras manifest there own areas. The forest inhabited by the witch from the Kava/Kura story, Altair Manor with he jester ghost dude, Lexus's beach, the barrucha cave, Lyrra's world, maybe the portal stone world with Traz's mom. Pretty much everything after that first sentence is pure theory, but thats the best I've got.

...I'm actually out of time here, so I'll go through the rest of the questions later.
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Re: Truth, beliefs, and theories of The Way [TheoryExtravaga

Postby Sage Of The Wise » Sat Aug 20, 2011 6:56 pm

Why would Lexus be gone forever if he left her?

Never actually thought about it before. I mean, she's right, because if he leaves Traziun destroys the sword moments later, but if that's what she meant, I have no idea how she'd know. Could also be because whatever Gaius was planning on doing, would involve Rhue losing connection to the sword, which is very likely seeing how he wants Rhue to get rid of it. As for how she knows, no idea really.


And whether he stays or leaves, why does he also wake up in reality seemingly that same person?

Well if he leaves, he should be the same person. If he stays, its hard to really tell if the person who wakes up is the same based off of what little we see after that, but I think it's someone different. I've already gone over that theory though.

Is that the End of the Way they are currently located? And what does that really mean?

Oh boy, this is a big one, and the main response I can give is, I don't know. But I have a lot of theories. Now, based off what we've seen in the series, my main belief on the whole subject is that the way is actually circular which would mean there is no beginning or end, but no one knows this because its so big, they run int structures created by people on a previous loop around the world and assume they were made by 'forerunners'. Now, we never get to a specific location that anyone claims is 'The End of the Way'. The closest is in the cave by the Rebel Guided camp, which Gaius says used to be the End of the Way. As for what he means by that I really don't know. If there are actually mists,then wherever the mists currently are is the end, and by that logic every point was 'the end' and some time or another. The way Gaius talks about it I'm tempted to say the whole thing is an in-joke by Gaius that we don't get, but unfortunately the name is something the Guided use as well, so there's got to be something more to that. The idea that the cave, or whats beyond it is The End or even recently The End is some serious flaws that make it hard to even consider. Consider Estrana, a huge city, implied to be the biggest in the world. It takes decades for such a place to form, such a city would have to be closer to the back of the way, as opposed to anywhere near the front. To really answer this we need to know a lot more about the nature of The Way. We get the impression that is basically a straight line, that people travel down, but we never see any evidence of that. Even watching Rhue's journey its by no means a straight line, what happens if you were to go a completly different way than Rhue? The best idea I have is that the 'End of The Way' is just the name currently being used for a specific place, most likely recently found (by Tetzel atleast, seeing how he's only recntly started trying to scare people away from it). Actually the whole name probably comes from Tetzel, seeing how its only used by Guided and Gaius. As or why that name, when its by no means an end, but a cave (or atleast used to be a cave?) I don't know. And whats important about it, no idea either. But its in Rhue's memory so it must have some importance.


Why does he fly into the sky? Is that the rolling mists he passes through?

Because he can? and I dont know.

How does that lead him back to Lexus?

This goes back to the idea that after Rhue chooses to stay with Lexus, some other aura takes over the body. So some other aura is the one that messes up Gaius's plan, then flies off to wherever. That last scene is just showing the aura of Rhue, still with Lexus in the house they bought in DE, 'living' a happy life.

Did he keep the Phantom Slasher in the Lexus ending?

Yes, I see know reason to think he doesn't.


As for everything else you said, I don't have anything else to really say about it that I haven't already. There's just a lot just left unanswered at the end.
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Re: Truth, beliefs, and theories of The Way [TheoryExtravaga

Postby Sage Of The Wise » Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:20 pm

Haha, that would be quite a shock. I guess it's now a lot easier to find the shadows in the latest version of the game, there didn't used to be a way to mark them on your map, making finding all of them almost impossible if you don't even know to look for them.
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Re: Truth, beliefs, and theories of The Way [TheoryExtravaga

Postby Archaius » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:59 am

I did a triple-take when I saw the dates on the previous few posts, here. I didn't actually expect this forum to still be breathing after seeing so many bots and spam-posts.

I was drawn to this Forum because I came in to work this very slow morning and began to remember a scene from "The Way". This actually seems to happen every now and then. My mind will drift back to various scenes, characters or unresolved parts of the story. I love fiction and sci-fi... and although I rarely find time to play games like I used to, I still have an appreciation for how a game can tell a story. Yet, "The Way" is one of the only stories most prominent in my mind. Even MUCH more so then certain renowned classics within the RPG genre. I'm not sure why that is, but I could speculate that it has something to do with how the story was told in conjunction with how Episode 6 ended.

I think it's great for a story to leave questions unanswered. I like coming up with theories or being drawn in by some mysterious and/or vague, foreboding idea. But, I think what really drove everything home the most for me were the characters. The story was written by a person who seems to have a good grasp on human nature & tendencies of people. I don't know if that comes from life experience or an appreciation for literature and writing, but I believe this because the characters are all so diverse in their ideas and convictions, but still believable.

You have Rhue, who is deeply troubled and convoluted. Working through his inner turmoil. You have Kloe who grows substantially throughout the story and is a very well put together female character (which isn't always common from male authors). Then there's Traziun who has some serious issues, but turned out to be such a stand-up guy. I think we all wish we could have a friend like that. Or BE a friend like that to somebody. I even remember minor characters like Therin who seemed to be a man of faith, but in an introspective sense as opposed to The Guided whom I remember being condescending and corrupt.

I finished these games years back, but still don't really have a sense of closure. Hopefully "The Way" won't be abandoned. I'm sure that if I feel this way, then there are probably others who do as well. I have always kept an eye out in anticipation of a Book, Game, Film, Series, etc. that I can purchase or look into.

Hopefully the author knows the level of potential in this. Hopefully there is more to come.

EDIT: Speaking of the author, I just spent all morning going through old threads on this forum that I haven't seen or remembered in years. It helped me to recall that I wasn't only fascinated by the game, "The Way", but also by the person who made it. All of the little side-notes and easter-eggs hidden throughout the game and it's code seemed to draw a very rough and somewhat cryptic connection between the lore of The Way & it's characters to the actual person who put it all together and their real-life experiences. Did anyone ever solve or decipher all of that mysterious code, by the way? Did it lead to a giant pot of gold hidden somewhere in Fairview California? :wink:
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Re: Truth, beliefs, and theories of The Way [TheoryExtravaga

Postby Sage Of The Wise » Thu Aug 25, 2011 3:09 pm

The only real thing of note that was discovered from the code was the first confirmation we got that Serena was Slade and Scatha's younger sister. Later on we got more actual in game evidence, but the code was what first changed it from a stupid theory to accepted.
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Re: Truth, beliefs, and theories of The Way [TheoryExtravaga

Postby Kcrazy » Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:02 pm

And really that's been the only lose end we've be able to tie up as far as theories go.
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Re: Truth, beliefs, and theories of The Way [TheoryExtravaga

Postby X-Calibar » Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:29 am

*Moved from the Estrana forum :

Speaking of the Girl... Another reason I like to think she's Serena - She didn't know any curse words like "Flaming fires of Janwen!" It could mean a lot of things of course, but... ignoring the appearence issue; it seems like a possible clue. As a little girl she probably hadn't heard many curses...

Oh, and maybe the reason she aged..? Perhaps she has some kind of connection to the pendant? I forget exactly how her life turned upside down after getting the pendant... But, Cetsa had been wearing it all those years. If physical objects can perhaps attach auras or make connections to auras.... Then maybe..?!?

Then again, why doesn't she look like Serena to the others?

Perhaps she is the perfect Serena that Jeruh seeks? The girl could be like the player Rhue. They are singularities born of something strange. Jeruh and Rhue's imaginations (and the sword/phantom) gave shape and life to the girl of their dreams. (Probably also thanks to all the auras and shadows etc)
Who was the Girl waiting to meet at the beginning? I might speculate it could be Jeruh.
All speculation xD Ahh well it was worth a thought.
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Re: Truth, beliefs, and theories of The Way [TheoryExtravaga

Postby Kcrazy » Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:22 pm

The cursing idea makes sense, but could be easily over turned by multiple different excuses.

I don't think the pendent had any real impact on the story other then driving the plot or her being conjured by the sword.

As for who she was waiting for, I thought for some reason it was Midian.
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Re: Truth, beliefs, and theories of The Way [TheoryExtravaga

Postby Sage Of The Wise » Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:25 am

I don't know, there was never anything in the game that implied the pendant was special in any way. While it certainly happened to play a pivotal role in the lives of half the cast (Rhue, Serena, Kloe, Cetsa) I don't see any reason why it would have such an effect. Also, we meet The Girl before Cetsa 'dies', in EP5 anyway, before which Rhue shouldn't be able to absorb any aura.
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Re: Truth, beliefs, and theories of The Way [TheoryExtravaga

Postby Beldarius » Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:24 am

I combined all the information from this topic on Rhue and made a sort of timeline. So this is basically his story before the game?

- Born from Lord of the Pits. He is named Venge. Gains an Illuminati, ends up wounding Lord of the Pits. Illuminati transforms into Shadow Sword known as Phantom Slasher.

- Escapes the Pits and becomes the Mimic.

- At some point, kills Kura and adopts his identity. Phantom Slasher absorbs the auras of Kava and Luma. (So, according to this theory, it wouldn't be far-fetched to say that Kura looked exactly like our Rhue. So Rhue's version of the play in Dream Estrana could be the real one. XD)

- Hundreds of years later (some time after the Landorin Massacre), he runs into Midian. Something happens and he kills Midian, adopting his identity. All "Midian" can remember is that he needs to find Jeruh.

- A week or two prior to the game, "Midian" meets up with the headhunter from Marna stretch and hires him to find Jeruh. (This means that "Rhue" has actually only existed for a week or so before the game starts.)

- Meets up with Gaius while still "Midian" and they find Jeruh/Rhue. "Midian" kills Rhue and absorbs his aura. Gaius leaves before "Midian" becomes "Rhue" (week or two prior to Episode 1).

- Jeruh/Rhue's memories are fake, which explains why "Rhue" doesn't recognize the headhunters, Gaius, Midian, Jeruh or Kavax when he meets them again.

PS. This is kind of my theory for what's been happening to Rhue. ...Also, if he's always been in the same body, it means that he doesn't age and is technically immortal. What if someone met "Rhue" twice and realized he doesn't age? Plothole right there...
Last edited by Beldarius on Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Truth, beliefs, and theories of The Way [TheoryExtravaga

Postby Sage Of The Wise » Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:51 am

- Hundreds of years later, Jeruh finds a dead man and a catatonic "Rhue", and takes Phantom Slasher. The sword controls Jeruh and he starts killing the other kids.

- "Rhue" wakes up and finds his sword is gone. He takes off looking for it, and runs into Midian. Something happens and he kills Midian, adopting his identity. All "Midian" can remember is that he needs to find Jeruh.


I don't think there's actually any evidence that Rhue was one of the catatonic people, or that the Shadow Sword Jeruh used was the Phantom Slasher. First off it couldn't happen the way described here because if Rhue didn't have the sword when he ran into Midian he wouldn't absorb Midian.

- Meets up with Gaius while still "Midian" and they find Jeruh. "Midian" kills Jeruh, picks up the Phantom Slasher and absorbs his aura. The "Midian" and "Jeruh" auras start mixing up, combine their memories into one and create the "Rhue" persona. Gaius leaves before "Midian" becomes "Rhue" (week or two prior to Episode 1).


Rhue wasn't a persona created by some unique combination of Midian and Jeruh, Rhue was the persona Jeruh himself took on after the Landorin Massacre. Like, after the massacre he was so fucked up mentally and couldn't cope with what happened he created this new persona named Rhue, who didn't cause the massacre, but was one of the victims, and remembers a version where he doesn't kill Serena. He lived under this persona for many years, up to when our Rhue killed him and became Rhue.

Also, if he's always been in the same body, it means that he doesn't age and is technically immortal.

You don't age while you have a shadow sword.
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Re: Truth, beliefs, and theories of The Way [TheoryExtravaga

Postby Beldarius » Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:50 am

Thanks, I'll go and change the timeline then. Haven't played the game for two years so I didn't remember all that was going on. Whoops.
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Re: Truth, beliefs, and theories of The Way [TheoryExtravaga

Postby Kcrazy » Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:11 pm

I've been trying to construct a timeline for the longest time, but it's pretty much impossible. The biggest question I've had since beating the game was who killed Midian, I mean obviously it was "Rhue" but who was he at the time. Fwacho said somewhere in one of my topics that up to 4 of Rhues' most recent personalities where important. So working backwards we go from Jeruh to Midian to who? Also, I'm guessing whoever those two personalities where, one of them was the one who killed Trazium's mother. At this point, there really hasn't been any good guesses as to who they could have been.

For the two shadow figures, there's really two theories on there identities. One would be Rhue, in the middle of an aura switch, makes sense when we think how the The Way works with its everything is connected type story line. The other would be Tetzel and Eyashu, which I'm not sure how that fits in the timeline, since we don't get much detail on the murder in game. I tried for awhile to tie the two together but Sage shot it done pretty quick, and he's right, seems very unlikely for Rhue to have been Tetzel and Eyashu.
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Re: Truth, beliefs, and theories of The Way [TheoryExtravaga

Postby Sage Of The Wise » Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:34 pm

Keep in mind Fwacho can and has been wrong in the past. I think as far as a Rhue identity timeline goes all we can be reasonably certain about is:

(Some kind of beginning) -> ... -> Kura-> Kava-> ... -> Midian -> Jeruh/Rhue

Strong arguments can be made that the beginning was Venge. And sometime between Kura and Midian he was someone who was trying to kill the red haired women (who's likely Traz's mom).

God you can't say a single thing about this game without putting in like 3 assumptions.
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