Truth, beliefs, and theories of The Way [TheoryExtravaganza]

=SPOILER ALERT= This is for those people who have FINISHED E6, and wish to discuss theories and stuff. Do NOT use it as a help board.

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Truth, beliefs, and theories of The Way [TheoryExtravaganza]

Postby [Gaius] » Sun Aug 24, 2008 1:14 pm

I am making this topic to commemorate my replay of The Way series yet again.

Truth, beliefs and theories

The girl is Serena.
Impossible. Serena would show up in Dream Estrana EXACTLY how she appeared before death, meaning, as a little girl. AND, Jeruh killed her; Rhue wasn't around at all. And stated correctly by Sage, Jeruh didn't have the shadow sword when Rhue (Midian) killed him.

Scatha is Chasta, Chasta is Slade's sister
This also includes Serena being Slade and Chasta's younger sister. I believe this theory to be absolutely correct. With all the gathered evidence, LUN'S CHANGING OF SLADE'S DIALOGUE IN E5, and the Pits ending, It's pretty much an accepted theory. Final piece of evidence, Slade claims he never saved any of the girls he should have. - He also says that he threw his sister into the pits, which makes sense because Scatha/Chasta is used to the pits and likes how dark they are- to hide her flaws.

Gaius has the untainted Illuminati
This also includes the theories of Gaius being the Harbinger. Direct and theoretical evidence includes; 1. Gaius was always somewhere near Rhue and never very far. This absolutely means that he was everywhere Rhue was, and Rhue happened to be around many executions. There was also the killing of Medmur/Entrego in E5. 2. In E5 when Rhue attacks the Harbinger, he is deflected and can't seem to harm him. This also happens when he attacks Gaius in later E5-E6, which is believed to happen because Illuminati and Shadow Swords are seemingly opposites- like the north and south poles repelling. 3. Gaius' attitude throughout the series also makes him seem like he is on a serious mission to purify The Way; he was searching for Tetzel, he wanted Rhue to give up his Shadow Sword, He could possibly be Kalmar's perfect weapon, etc.

Gaius : Kalmar's Perfect Weapon and the other escapee Blood lyn
In E2 and on, Kloe is always mourning over being left behind by her Blood brother. This is pretty much revealed to have been Gaius, who doesn't wish to stay with her and instead always runs away. It is perfectly possible for Gaius to be Kalmar's perfect weapon because of the aforementioned theory, that he has the only untainted Illuminati. This almost definately means that if Traziun came through for his father's desires, he would now wield this Illuminati.
Another piece to the puzzle that makes perfect sense here is that the Blana sera and blood lyn had the Last Illuminati, because it was the Lyn themselves that attacked and scarred the lord below. But why was one final Illuminati not tainted? One last bit of evidence from E6: Gaius admits he is not like other wanderers.

Name changing
Kura
Kava (Kavax-Added X)
Luma
Rhue-Jeruh(Minus 'j')
Scatha(Chasta-Scambled)
Slade
Alagard-Traziun (changed name to get away from the lyn)
Kalmar
Therin
Wes
Dana
Gaius
Lyrra
Kloe
Cetsa
Dirk
Tetzel
Lexus
Strata
Sorya(Rosa-Minus Y)
So Jeruh became Rhue to forget the massacre.
Sorya became Rosa to make her a mysterious fighter in the arena.
Kava became Kavax after coming back to life and being Pharaphalyn, which he gives away to 'Rhue/Venge.'


Rhue killed Traziun's mother
This theory has been pretty much proven aswell. When Traziun kills Kalmar, Kalmar says something about them both "becoming one" and then Traziun claims that something is eating into his mind. He is then shown the truth of who killed his mother through his father's eyes, which at first was a guess as to be Rhue. In E6, many believe the Red-haired woman who runs from Rhue is Traziun's mother because A. Her aura's in his sword, B. She runs from him and believes he is going to kill her, and C. her having a wide knowledge of Shadow swords and appears to be talking about Rhue or Kalmar in her explanation. The theory was practically proven when Traziun kills himself to avenge his father and save Rhue, because he and Rhue were one in the same; Rhue killed his mother and Traziun killed his father, both unjust and wrong deaths. (Thus giving the Shadow sword cause for remorse)

Rhue know's he's the Phantom Slasher?
I don't think that this has actually been discussed here before. In late EP5 and EP6 Gaius says, "Don't you know who you are? You're the Phantom Slasher!" We knew this already, but then Rhue strangely replies with a "Shutup!" As Sage stated before, this could also (and most likely) just be Rhue not caring or listening to Gaius anymore- just wanting to finish him.

Rhue was Kura and Kava!
In the story, Kura killed Kava. In E6, DE, Rhue eventually faces Kavax, the Pharaphalyn. Kavax claims that he forgives Kura (Rhue) and then is beaten and Rhue becomes the Pharaphalyn. When Rhue (as Kura) killed Kava, Kava's Aura became the dominant Aura and then Rhue (Kava) proceeded to kill the guided. This theory has practically been proven, meaning that Gaius was correct in his assumptions that Rhue has been around for a long time.

Rendering the Sword weak
In E6, the final boss battle is against Arctura, which was said to be an Illuminati. Once defeated, Rhue also defeats the Phantom Slasher, the Shadow Sword part of his sword. The sword is then stabbed into Traziun's head and then feels remorse and is destroyed. However, in the alternate endings, Rhue only kills Arctura (as Chaos Perfected states) and lives the lie in DE while the Phantom Slasher controls his real body.

The final scene and sword
EmperorJeramyu wrote:The sword we see in the credits of E6 near the splotches of blood where Traziun stood and delivered his monologue on a life for a life uses the same sprite as the sword he picked up in E2/3. Night Reaper. I just noticed this, but when Traziun appears to destroy the Phantom Slasher, you can see (or if you at least look at the sprites in RM2k) he doesn't have a sword in his sheath. So it's safe to say he left the sword behind before going after the PS.

The sword we see after the credits that Rhue does/does not take uses the same sprite that Kalmar had/lost to Lyrra. Ghost Horror.

Lun's consistent with the sprites used, so it's safe to say we know which swords are which. Given that Ghost Horror was just kinda launched in a random direction, and Rhue's compulsion to take it when he sees it if he falls to 0 HP in the final plunge, it's pretty assured it just happened to land there.



Scatha and Strata
Scatha hates men. Under the descriptions of them that she gives, it appears that she may be describing Strata. Her knowing him may also be why Slade recognizes him in Ep1 before the bunny races. It is very possible that Scatha/Chasta was dating/loving Strata before she got burned and called a whore by her mother. This also fits because after she did get burned she wasn't beatiful anymore and Strata probably dumped her A.S.A.P.

Sorya's Story; Lying Lexus
In Episode 4 or 5, before Rhue kills Sorya, she says that Lexus was using him to copy Dancing violet and that she also set up the 'fake' blue scarves in Estrana. Was this story true? It doesn't seem so because one of the endings of the game is Rhue living with Lexus.
EmperorJeramyu wrote:One truth, one lie. Given the presence of the blue scarves in Estrana, and Lexus/Red zero's fighting style being a carbon copy of Cetsa's, it's hard to argue Lexus wasn't obsessed with dancing violet. And while her obsession may have spurred her initial interest in Rhue, her presence in E6 and certainly the special ending show that her feelings for Rhue at least became true. Sorya's remarks on how it was all a facade are surely in self-interest. It doesn't take a genius to see Sorya wants Rhue all to herself, so why not try and get Rhue over Lexus's death with a little a lie?

Also, Rhue doesn't necessarily kill Sorya. It's a function of his Sorya points They have to be maxed for Rhue to not kill her. Though if you don't kill her you can't get her in E6 at all.



MORE TO BE ADDED.

QUOTES AND OTHERS' BELIEFS

Chaos Perfected's theories:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2479&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

'final scene discussion':http://www.crestfallen.us/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3795
Discussion about Scatha with Strata/Kygar
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2785

Good discussion including info about Auras being released from DE.
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3152

Dirk/End of the way theory
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2448&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15

Scavenger hunt in the coding.
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2089
(kudos to Sage of the Wise)

2.People who know Rhue from the past:
GAIUS - helped Rhue as Midian kill Jeruh.
RED-HAIRED WOMAN/Traziun's mother - was scared of Rhue and explains about shadow swords, which seems to be Rhue that she is describing.
HEADHUNTERS - In Ep1, Ep2. Rhue encounters a few headhunters which he (as midian) most likely hired to kill Jeruh.
----------------------------------------------
I'm going to edit this when I think of more to add (I forgot a few.)
Any corrections, etc would be appreciated.

[EDIT 1] Already found some new material that I believe. Added.

[EDIT 2] Added some links to important topics.

[EDIT 3] Thanks, Sage. Time to add more.
Last edited by [Gaius] on Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:16 pm, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: Truth, beliefs, and theories of The Way

Postby Sling » Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:06 pm

Yeah, it's pretty much determined that The Girl isn't Serena. For that to be a possbility, an abnormality would have had to occur during the aura absorbtion. I'm not sure about whether or not someone absorbs the auras absorbed by a shadow sword wielder when they kill them, I think that does happen I can't remember. Someone like Sage would know.

It is pretty much agreed that Scatha is Slade and Serena's sister. It is also pretty much agreed that Gaius does possess the last remaining uncorrupted Iluminati. The reasons why Rhue can't hit him is unclear, whilst it could be becuase of the reason you described although it may be a possibility that Shadow Sword wielders can't hit Illuminati wielders and not vice versa. It is also accepted fact that Gaius was the 2nd escaped Blood Lyn and Kalmar's "Perfect Blade" as well as Kloe's Blood Brother.

It is also pretty much established that Rhue did kill Traziun's mother, was Kura and that Strata was the on Scatha (Chasta) slept with. I think the only theory that is new is the one about Rhue knowing he was the Phantom Slasher.
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Re: Truth, beliefs, and theories of The Way [TheoryExtravaganza]

Postby [Gaius] » Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:12 pm

Thankyou. I'm hoping to achieve a topic full of EVERYTHING. I'm going to search and add some more to it.

At first I believed that Traziun and Rhue escaped the blood lyn, because it seemed that Gaius was kalmar's perfect blade and was obvious why he left and was not followed.
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Re: Truth, beliefs, and theories of The Way [TheoryExtravaganza]

Postby Sage Of The Wise » Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:25 pm

The only way the girl can be Serena is if there are some properties of the sword that let the aura age that we don't know about. Normally I'd just say its not possible, but there is too much we don't know that it could be true I guess. Personally I don't think so.

Gaius is almost definitely the harbringer. Things you didn't mention include the whole judgment and killing of Medmur scene, which pretty much fulfills the job description of Kalmar's perfect blade. Also, the Blood Lyn docter that treats Slade has the same sprite as the harbringer, but there's a comment in the sprite that says "this is not gaius". as well as the fact that the harbringer sprite is on gaius's graphic file.

But why was one final Illuminati not tainted?

Cause one sword wasn't brought into the battle at Janwen.

Rhue know's he's the Phantom Slasher?
I don't think that this has actually been discussed here before. In late EP5 and EP6 Gaius says, "Don't you know who you are? You're the Phantom Slasher!" We knew this already, but then Rhue strangely replies with a "Shutup!" As if he knew that he was all along. Where could he have gotten this knowledge, and when?

I don't think its cause he knows. He's just stopped listening to Gaius at this point and wants to kill him. Also note that Rhue wasn't really the PS, the PS was a manifestation of his sword.

Rhue was Kura
In the story, Kura killed Kava. In E6, DE, Rhue eventually faces Kavax, the Pharaphalyn. Kavax claims that he forgives Kura (Rhue) and then is beaten and Rhue becomes the Pharaphalyn.
This theory is proven, meaning that Rhue has been around a long time as Gaius believes.

If you want to get technical about it, Rhue was both of them, Kura first, then Kava after he killed him. Legends about Kava coming back from the dead to avenge the death of that witch chick pretty much prove it.

People who know Rhue from the past:
SCATHA - claims he seems different.

Scatha doesn't actually know Rhue from the past, she just thinks she is. In reality she is, understandably, confusing him with Jeruh who she knew in the past as the kid who always followed around her sister, Serena. also explains why hes different, seeing how he is a different person.

I'm not sure about whether or not someone absorbs the auras absorbed by a shadow sword wielder when they kill them, I think that does happen I can't remember. Someone like Sage would know.

The only time in the series where two shadow sword wielders kill eachother is when Rhue kills Lyrra, and when Traziun kills Kalmar. Now, all Lyrra would have had at the time aura wise was a few blood lyn, no way to tell if Rhue absorbed them or not. Now, with the whole Traziun/Kalmar thing, all sorts or weird shit happend. Not really sure if it was caused cause Traziun absorbed all Kalmar's auras, or just Kalmar, or somthing else entirely. Luckily none of this matters as far as original question goes, because Jeruh didn't have the shadow sword anymore when Rhue killed him, so no Serena aura floating around to worry about.
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Re: Truth, beliefs, and theories of The Way [TheoryExtravaganza]

Postby [Gaius] » Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:03 pm

Thanks, Sage! Not to suck up but you certainly are important in all this. Including the Search in the coding.

EDITTED Again.
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Re: Truth, beliefs, and theories of The Way [TheoryExtravaganza]

Postby Angel_OA » Mon Aug 25, 2008 5:41 pm

Actually I'd wondered something about the 'normal' ending in E6. Could the sword we see in the very final scene mark the final resting place of Traziun? Rhue might just be there to pay his respects and has nothing to do with the fact that it is a shadow sword, but maybe not. Someone with a better memory of that scene in the other endings will have to compare the subtle differences.
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Re: Truth, beliefs, and theories of The Way [TheoryExtravaganza]

Postby EmperorJeramyu » Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:17 pm

The sword we see in the credits of E6 near the splotches of blood where Traziun stood and delivered his monologue on a life for a life uses the same sprite as the sword he picked up in E2/3. Night Reaper. I just noticed this, but when Traziun appears to destroy the Phantom Slasher, you can see (or if you at least look at the sprites in RM2k) he doesn't have a sword in his sheath. So it's safe to say he left the sword behind before going after the PS.

The sword we see after the credits that Rhue does/does not take uses the same sprite that Kalmar had/lost to Lyrra. Ghost Horror.

Lun's consistent with the sprites used, so it's safe to say we know which swords are which. Given that Ghost Horror was just kinda launched in a random direction, and Rhue's compulsion to take it when he sees it if he falls to 0 HP in the final plunge, it's pretty assured it just happened to land there.
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Re: Truth, beliefs, and theories of The Way [TheoryExtravaganza]

Postby [Gaius] » Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:43 pm

Brilliant! Although I expected no less from you, Jeramyu.
Editted again.
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Re: Truth, beliefs, and theories of The Way [TheoryExtravaganza]

Postby EmperorJeramyu » Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:23 pm

[Gaius] wrote:Sorya's Story; Lying Lexus
In Episode 4 or 5, before Rhue kills Sorya, she says that Lexus was using him to copy Dancing violet and that she also set up the 'fake' blue scarves in Estrana. Was this story true? It doesn't seem so because one of the endings of the game is Rhue living with Lexus.

One truth, one lie. Given the presence of the blue scarves in Estrana, and Lexus/Red zero's fighting style being a carbon copy of Cetsa's, it's hard to argue Lexus wasn't obsessed with dancing violet. And while her obsession may have spurred her initial interest in Rhue, her presence in E6 and certainly the special ending show that her feelings for Rhue at least became true. Sorya's remarks on how it was all a facade are surely in self-interest. It doesn't take a genius to see Sorya wants Rhue all to herself, so why not try and get Rhue over Lexus's death with a little a lie?

Also, Rhue doesn't necessarily kill Sorya. It's a function of his Sorya points They have to be maxed for Rhue to not kill her. Though if you don't kill her you can't get her in E6 at all.
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Re: Truth, beliefs, and theories of The Way [TheoryExtravaganza]

Postby [Gaius] » Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:24 pm

Great yet again. Much appreciated. Although I never knew that. Shows how much I liked Sorya :)

Now If I could only fit everything into this topic....
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Re: Truth, beliefs, and theories of The Way [TheoryExtravaganza]

Postby Sage Of The Wise » Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:24 pm

Now If I could only fit everything into this topic....

Yeah, we've tried that, it would require a group of people who weren't all lazy.
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Re: Truth, beliefs, and theories of The Way [TheoryExtravaganza]

Postby War » Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:35 pm

I generally believe that dream Estrana, is just what it says a dream. Although it is influenced by the auras Rhue has taken in and by the phantom slasher itself, it still holds the functions of a dream. In that case The Girl could easily be older, or another way to look at it is that there is no The Girl, but its a representation of what Serena would be in the mind of Rhue, as Rhue has never actually seen what Serena looks like.

This also leads itself into the weather or not Lexus really loved Rhue or if the love they had in the quote 'heaven ending' wasn't Rhue just wanting to stay in the dream himself; therefor, making up a lie to himself.
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Re: Truth, beliefs, and theories of The Way [TheoryExtravaganza]

Postby Sage Of The Wise » Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:26 pm

This also leads itself into the weather or not Lexus really loved Rhue or if the love they had in the quote 'heaven ending' wasn't Rhue just wanting to stay in the dream himself; therefor, making up a lie to himself.


Well, her death scene is rather strange if you believe she never really loved him. "I wanted to see you one last time." and stuff.
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Re: Truth, beliefs, and theories of The Way [TheoryExtravaganza]

Postby [Gaius] » Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:51 am

Sage Of The Wise wrote:
Now If I could only fit everything into this topic....

Yeah, we've tried that, it would require a group of people who weren't all lazy.


I see. :)

When I have some more time I'll update this again with more junk.
Maybe, just maybe this topic will continue to expand. It would be helpful to have a super-topic, no? Maybe just a nuisance. Oh well.

EDIT: Added the incomplete list of characters and their name changes.
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Re: Truth, beliefs, and theories of The Way [TheoryExtravaganza]

Postby blackandsilver » Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:30 am

Hi everyone,
I just finished going through all 6 ep the second time. Actually, first I played it without guide and I'm happy to state that IMHO I found a lot of (hidden) extras... however I was angry and confused when I got the (normal) ending.
After the second time, I started thinking but was still very confused.
Finally I found this forum, watched three different endings again and it is slowly starting to make sense...
But, please correct me, I don't know if I have everything straight.

1. The Phantom Slasher
- is Rhue's sword.
- is the misterious shadow killer we see throughout the episodes
- is not equivalent to any other character
- absorbs the aura of whom it killed, or when near death/destruction
- is nullifyed (is there a better word?) by Traziun in one ending
- to me, it seems that it has its own personality, which seems sort of cynic/antisocial

2. The Endings
I have found 3. In one Traziun destroys PS, in two Rhue stays in DE, in three they fall into the Reaches.
Are there any more? And also one thing I don't quite get; but I will get to that later.

3. Dream Estrana
It seems to me that everything killed by/near the PS has its aura absorbed so we find Estrana, Midian, Lyrra, Slade, etc. who are obviously dead, inside the sword. It also means that Sacrifa died while bringing destruction to the city, am I correct? And Alan is dead also. Janwen was destroyed and appears below DE. So that's why if I play the reaches ending Rhue doesn't actually die, as he is in reality an illusion-world. The girls seem to die, but do not really, because they're already dead, I think that is just a symbol of denial from Rhue.
The thing I don't understand is why Gaius and Traziun appear in the Reaches ending (if I remeber correctly). Neither should be that, unless Rhue falling into the Reaches unleashes some sort of greater evil etc... any explanation for this?

4. The Tower
It also seems symbolic to me that Cetsa is held in real Estrana in the Tower, and in Rhue's eyes she seemed to hold the Truth, and in DE Truth is also equivalent to the top room of the tower. I think I also understand why PS tells that it has no power to withold others from that place, as IMHO each aura has its imprint on the world inside PS, this is probably why Lyrra is living in a faraway flowery kingdom, right?
But I think something escapes me about that significance. Jeruh is dead, his aura also has an impression on PS so why stay in that small room? I don't think the PS would have the power to hold him there. I just don't understand...
It is also funny that even though everyone feels something is amiss, Lyrra and the others don't realize they are dead...

5. Kava and Kura/The Mimic
Eh, I understand the Kava/Kura theory but I think it's insignificant. My other important question is, where does the figure of the Mimic come from? I haven't encountered any mention of it in the game (or I don't remember), maybe I left out something important? Or is this an official theory/Legend?

6. Serena, the unseen family.
We see mother and three children: I think it's obvious that they are Slade, Chasta and Serena.
a., Anyone any idea to the identity of the mother?
b., She tells: "The little one is dead". She turns it to be some sort of punishment, as in reality she was killed as an innocent victim of fate/coincidence/Jeruh being at the wrong place and picking up the wrong sword. Is she trying to turn this into a moral issue or maybe that misterious woman has something to do with the events turning this way.
c., How in the Reaches does Dirk know Scatha?
d., Who is the father?:)
EDIT: I just got a brainwave... maybe Dirk is the father? That doesn't have any basis I can think of, though.

7. To unlock the Reaches ending, you need to defeat 4 shadowy figures... who are they? I don't think I get that part...
After each victory there is a quote something like one more shadow burns in the flames or something similar...

Thank you for your patience for reading these totally random thoughts. :) I appreciate any explanations.
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