Theory on the Pits ending and other tid bits

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Theory on the Pits ending and other tid bits

Postby parallel » Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:19 pm

This conjecture is all based on a discusion on the pits ending a friend and i had a few months back now, i regret not posting it sooner as i'm certain i've forgotten much of waht we came up with but that's irrelevant.

Basically, this all stemmed from my freind noticing that one of the sprites of the shadow plunges looked like dancing violet (forgive me, i cannot remember which one) and that he noticed that she had not turned up anywhere else in the DE.

Then we looked at the other sprites of the shadow plunges, and noticed similarities between them and other characters ( again, can't remember all, but one was theorised to be Kura due to the similat battle style. I profuously apologise for forgetting these as who they are will become relevant soon in this theory, but if you attempt to look yourself ideas of who they may be will be narrowed with this next part.) Anyway, what we began to wonder if there was between the 4 people we identified as being the people behind the plunges and the fact they unlock the pits ending...

...and then it struck us. These were all people who held some sort of grudge against Rhue! Now, this is where the conjecture kicks in. These were all people who hated Rhue, but what was their connection to the pits ending. Now the pits ending is all very enigmatic and metaphorical, and has it fair share of revelation, now what if those who were in the shadow plunges represented the parts of Rhue that conflicted with himself, the inner turmoil within him? Would this mean that these were the parts of Rhue that would want to prevent him from reaching what he wanted? In short, we beleive you must defeat these people in the shadon plunges so that Rhue can purge himself of everything that is conflicting within himself, so that he can at last reveal all this to himself (I'm sorry, im not articulating this as well as i hoped). In short, you must beat those in the shadow plunges so that Rhue can show himslef the truth. The trtuh about everything.

Now, some of my friends have taken this to mean the pits is the 'true' ending. As if we are right, this means that this is the ending where we see the final truths, all doubt has gone from Rhue, he can finnaly lift the veil from under his own eyes. I disagree, i beleive it's simply Rhue discovering what he already knew. But interpret this as you will. This is merely a theory
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Next point of order. Why Rhue does what he does at the end of the Lexus and Pits ending. When Rhue jumps away at the end of the Lexus ending, this i beleive is the Phantom Slasher himself taking over Rhue as he jumps away. This i beleive is because The aurau itself has not snapped as it usually does when a new Aura becomes predominant, but is instead Rhue retreating inside the auras to live with lexus, which leaves the PS free to take over, as there is a gap for a personality left without the Auras themselves snapping.

Wheras in the pits ending, in accordance with my earlier theory, it is Rhue ( or even the mimic) coming to terms with everything, allowing himslef to let everything go. Allowing Rhue to be at peace with everything, for he has last settled all the turmoil within him (by winning the shadow plunges) and finnaly laid everyting to rest.

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Finnaly, a note on mirrors. This may have been brought up before, and if so, i aplogise. Now, it is pretty well estalished that Rhue hates mirrors, and now for the reason why. It is simply becasue by looking in a mirror, Rhue can see he doesn't look as he should, that he dislikes looking at them becasue there is one small part of him that can still tell that he isn't who he thinks. Also, i may be wrong here, but her gets slightly more tollerant of them as the game goes on. I beleive this is becasue his aura's getting more tangeled and he's getting used to who he is.
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Thankyou for taking the time to read all of this (there has been quite a lot). I hope at least some of it is new and intersting, and that if i remember or think of anymore i shall indeed share it. Again, thankyou.
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Re: Theory on the Pits ending and other tid bits

Postby EmperorJeramyu » Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:20 pm

The Shadow plunge...rs are Strata, Scatha/Chasta, Cetsa/Dancing Violet, and what appears to a headhunter.
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Re: Theory on the Pits ending and other tid bits

Postby Sage Of The Wise » Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:44 pm

Now, some of my friends have taken this to mean the pits is the 'true' ending. As if we are right, this means that this is the ending where we see the final truths, all doubt has gone from Rhue, he can finnaly lift the veil from under his own eyes.

The irony being this ending leaves Rhue with seemingly no answers, falling down a pit while having an inner monologue that effectively boils down to 'this was a bad idea'. Oh, then he dies.
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Re: Theory on the Pits ending and other tid bits

Postby parallel » Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:12 pm

EmperorJeramyu wrote:The Shadow plunge...rs are Strata, Scatha/Chasta, Cetsa/Dancing Violet, and what appears to a headhunter.


Why would Scatha be a shadow plunge? She never died, did she? (I really am going to have to go through the board and see whats been happening in the last few years since i last visisted). Yes we did identify Strata thankyou for that, it was driving me mad. I also think the head hunter was the one we put down as Kura, due to his plunging style.

Also, while you say sage that this is the one where we learn the least, i think it's more Rhue learning more about himself. He kills the shadow plungers, he kills of all of the women around him.

Then he explores his feling by talking to those around him that feel what he does. Gaius and him having to force Kloe away. Traziun and what we can only presume is the love he had for his mother. Then to the Phantom slasher, talking with his other self. WE don't find ut anything, but Rhue learns what we knew all along. And while we're left with questions he's got answers.

I almost think thats more important somehow.
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Re: Theory on the Pits ending and other tid bits

Postby Sage Of The Wise » Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:33 pm

Why would Scatha be a shadow plunge? She never died, did she?

Well, neither did Strata, or Cetsa in the Lexus ending.

And what do you mean about the headhunter one having Kura's fighting style?
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Re: Theory on the Pits ending and other tid bits

Postby randomperson » Sat Jul 11, 2009 9:51 am

I kind of thought the shadow plunges were like incomplete auras of Scatha, Strata, Cetsa and that one headhunter from E1, since they're people who Rhue had contact with but never actually killed, so he couldn't have absorbed their complete auras. Resulting in the "shadows" of their auras in DE. But I have no idea if that's true or not.
Likewise, I figured that Slade's aura was more complete than the shadow plungers' auras, since the sword seemed to be completely stuck in Slade for a time, but it still didn't kill him, resulting in an incomplete aura, represented by how Slade can't speak in E6.

Just my own personal theory though, and probably contradicted by something else. Just the only thing I could come up with.
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Re: Theory on the Pits ending and other tid bits

Postby EmperorJeramyu » Sun Jul 12, 2009 11:16 am

I just noticed something rather interesting, and I can't believe it escaped me up until now.

In Lun's interview with Play magazine he states:
By the end of the game, Serena, the ideal love, Rhue's supposed soul mate, is vanquished, and Rhue is confronted by the Phantom Slasher who tells him that people aren't perfect and that no matter what they do they will fail him in some way. Rhue accepts this and tells the Phantom Slasher that he doesn't care. He just wants someone who will keep trying, and that he will keep trying too. The most obvious interpretation is that he wants someone who will choose to love him and continue working at it with him despite various challenges.

Now this, from the Reaches ending:
PHANTOM SLASHER: ...
RHUE: People aren't perfect!
PHANTOM SLASHER: People are selfish.
RHUE: They can change...
PHANTOM SLASHER: You know they can't.
RHUE: Some try!
PHANTOM SLASHER: All fail.
RHUE: ...
RHUE: ...
RHUE:
RHUE: I don't care. I just want someone who won't stop trying.

Curiously enough, the ending where Rhue (at least outright) states "he wants someone who will choose to love him and continue working at it with him despite various challenges" is the reaches ending. In fact, the Lexus ending seems like the antithesis of this ending, where he lives in a fantasy world with his perfect soul-mate. In the full Kloe version of the normal ending, it seems at least implied that Kloe is one the one who will "continue working at it with him despite various challenges" in some respects.

This isn't really on topic, but it just struck me as funny:
(From the E6 normal ending, after Traziun kills himself with the PS)
GAIUS: Incredible...
KLOE: What happened...
GAIUS: The Phantom Slasher is no more.
KLOE: Traziun...
GAIUS: Yes...
GAIUS: Quite incredible...
KLOE: I don't understand.
GAIUS: He gave it cause for remorse.
KLOE: Remorse? Wasn't it evil?
GAIUS: How little you understand.
KLOE: How about explaining it a little better!

This looks like Lun: A) Taking a pot shot at us, or B) Outright dispelling to our faces that the swords aren't inherently linked to any black-and-white notion of good and evil, granted I think most people accept that by now. Probably both.
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Re: Theory on the Pits ending and other tid bits

Postby Sage Of The Wise » Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:08 pm

Just think, if Kloe hadn't killed Baller, Gauis may have been in less of a 'fuck off, bitch' mood towards Kloe and we'd have so many more answers.
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Re: Theory on the Pits ending and other tid bits

Postby War » Sun Jul 12, 2009 7:32 pm

If Kloe didn't kill Baller, then she would still be stuck in Lides.
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