dream estrana

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dream estrana

Postby mortalsoldier » Sat Jan 02, 2010 6:26 pm

While Dream Estrana is obviously not a part of the Way's reality, I feel like the connotations involving it and the people who inhabit it are unclear. From what I understand, the shadow sword "absorbs" auras (Jopaga explains auras as people's perspectives, while the "soul" is essentially what holds the aura and allows it to live). With that said, Dream Estrana does seem like a real construct outside of the Way and rather simply "inside" of Phantom Slasher or whatever sentience the sword has to create Dream Estrana. Moreso, the inhabitants of Dream Estrana are all self-willed rather than say puppets of the Phantom Slasher. With that said, perhaps rather than being an "illusion", maybe Dream Estrana is a way for the Phantom Slasher to keep all the auras it absorbs busy while the most useful one is dominant in the real world? It's not as if the inhabitants of Dream Estrana have the Phantom Slasher's best interest in mind. Essentially, within the way the "soul" is only what adheres an aura into reality, so if the inhabitants of Dream Estrana are the materialized auras of those killed by Phantom Slasher, doesn't that make Dream Estrana a valid world outside of the Way's reality?

Think of this way: while nobody remembers being killed (though Sacrifa hints he might believe that is what happened), everyone maintains exactly who they are outside of Dream Estrana while they are there. So isn't a person in Dream Estrana essentially the same as they were outside of the real world previous to their death? This would make the Lexus ending a lot more positive, despite the fact that the real world outside of Phantom Slasher will continue to suffer, all the inhabitants of Dream Estrana as well as Rhue and Lexus get to live on happily (as opposed to what most people believe this ending to be: where Rhue is deceived into an illusion by the Phantom Slasher). I think the most valid point concerning this is the simple idea that Phantom Slasher makes accommodations for the inhabitants of Dream Estrana rather than vice versa. He gives Lyrra her own fantasy world and kingdom (what she's always wanted, essentially) because it is scared of Lyrra and how she's the key to unlocking the Truth of what happened at Landorin and who Jeruh is. Midian and Sacrifa both seem to want to get to the truth as well, despite this being what the Phantom Slasher is trying to avoid. The Phantom Slasher's only real ally in Dream Estrana is Lexus, but this is simply because Lexus loves Rhue and is scared of losing him to the Truth.

Do you think Dream Estrana is an illusion created by the Phantom Slasher or a home for those absorbed by Phantom Slasher?
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Re: dream estrana

Postby Debacle » Sun Jan 03, 2010 3:30 pm

I mostly agree with what you said there, and I think the answer is both. It's hard to debate physics within a ethereal realm, but I guess the world is inside the sword - if the sword absorbs an aura, the logical thought would be that the aura stays inside the sword.
People indeed are themselves, I don't think they are just a big theatre - why would Lyrra tell Rhue the truth if she was a sword puppet?
This world is an illusion following the idea that it appears to shape itself based on its inhabitants.
The whole reason why Lyrra could break the tower seal could be that it ressonates with Jeruh's aura somehow. If it was under total control of the sword, the Phantom's Edge could just be infinitely tall so Rhue could never climb it.

Even being some sort of illusion, it's the reality for the auras inside. I don't think Lexus ending was any wrong for Rhue for staying there.
I've read arguments that he was escaping reality and had to face real problems and deal with life and stuff, but seriously, if you could have a life where most of things are at your favor why would anyone choose not to?
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Re: dream estrana

Postby mortalsoldier » Sun Jan 03, 2010 7:26 pm

Debacle wrote:I mostly agree with what you said there, and I think the answer is both. It's hard to debate physics within a ethereal realm, but I guess the world is inside the sword - if the sword absorbs an aura, the logical thought would be that the aura stays inside the sword.
People indeed are themselves, I don't think they are just a big theatre - why would Lyrra tell Rhue the truth if she was a sword puppet?
This world is an illusion following the idea that it appears to shape itself based on its inhabitants.
The whole reason why Lyrra could break the tower seal could be that it ressonates with Jeruh's aura somehow. If it was under total control of the sword, the Phantom's Edge could just be infinitely tall so Rhue could never climb it.

Even being some sort of illusion, it's the reality for the auras inside. I don't think Lexus ending was any wrong for Rhue for staying there.
I've read arguments that he was escaping reality and had to face real problems and deal with life and stuff, but seriously, if you could have a life where most of things are at your favor why would anyone choose not to?


Well put.

The moment I started thinking about this is when I asked myself what I would do in Rhue's situation. When it comes to the happiness of Rhue (and Lexus), this seems to be the best answer, though it completely screws everyone outside of Dream Estrana. With that said, the normal ending screws everyone inside of Dream Estrana for the sake of everyone outside of it. Of course, then it's question of whether or not Dream Estrana has any relevance to actual existence (it seems to be a kind of afterlife for people killed by Rhue or around Rhue during their aura leaving their body). The general impression is that the Lexus ending is a selfish answer for Rhue's problems... but is it really a fully selfish (admittedly it is somewhat) choice for Rhue? I'm sure if you asked The Girl or Midian or Alan what ending they'd like...
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Re: dream estrana

Postby Debacle » Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:10 pm

Well, Rhue doesn't know what will happen in the outside world. It's not like he is choosing between letting the Phantom Slasher free (which doesn't seemed THAT much of a deal, based on Gaius/Traziun decision) or himself.
Considering he just found out he is a figment of Jeruh's persona and was "made" by the sword, it seems more proper that he belongs in Dream Estrana than "that strange body in the mirror".
Ah, can't forget that he found out there is no Serena too.
I can't see the "greater good" that he think he could do outside that would be resigned in favor of his own.

Now, maybe the Citadels are physical locations of the "Dream Estranas", if the title picture and the rpg maker hidden clues mean something more.
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Re: dream estrana

Postby mortalsoldier » Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:12 am

Debacle wrote:maybe the Citadels are physical locations of the "Dream Estranas"


I never thought about that... pretty neat idea.
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Re: dream estrana

Postby tridon777 » Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:50 pm

The citadels in the background when you were wandering along the way? The prerendered backgrounds you alwasy saw? Hopefully this makes sense......
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Re: dream estrana

Postby Debacle » Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:27 am

Yes, I guess. Check Episode 6 titlescreen.
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