The One Thing.....

[Kcrazy]

What is the number one mystery of the way you would like to know above all else"

[X-Calibar]

Tell me about The Girl.

(imagines Lun say, ... I could tell you many things. The creation of the world; the history of Janwen; What becomes of Tranziun if he lives; Gaius' fate; About Auras; The Mimic; Forerunners; the language of the pits; Lord Below!; Anything! ... but you want to hear more about ... "The Girl". *sigh*)

[Kcrazy]

The girl is a fair question, I mean Lun goes out of his way to not name her, yet ever other character up and down the way has a name with a fleshed history. I mean Gallagher is named of all people, yet the girl is simply the girl. He teases us with blond hair, almost forcing us to believe it's Serena, yet it just doesn't quite add up given what we know about Dream Estrana.

If she where in Dream Estrana that would mean Rhue's sword would either had to been the one Jeruh used to kill her or at the very least near her at the time of her death. I would say it's very possible for the sword Jeruh pulled from the dead body to be the Phantom Slasher, given that the other shadow is in a comatose state, as if it where "Rhue" switching auras. Also, the Phantom Slasher changes up the way Rhue remembers the scene, presenting both shadows to be alive, possibly covering up it's origins.

But, then theirs the huge flaw in the idea of the girl being Serena. She's aged, which doesn't seem to be a characteristic of Dream Estrana. Kavax is still as young as the day he was Kava, If she is Serena, why would she have aged, and why does the aging stop.

[EmperorJeramyu]

She's aged, which doesn't seem to be a characteristic of Dream Estrana. Kavax is still as young as the day he was Kava, If she is Serena, why would she have aged, and why does the aging stop.

It's always bothered me that this has somehow been accepted as fact. Okay yeah, there's Kavax, but he could be a special case at worst. It's not like sprites or even face pics are particularly apt at displaying age, so I think it would be kind of difficult to assume one way or the other, even with people like Traziun's mom. Hell, I seem to recall a theory that Kavax was one of the dead/comatose guys found near the PS.

Was there any ACTUAL piece of concrete evidence that people don't age in Dream Estrana? I know there are a lot of people in DE who would've seemingly been very important or visible if they had lived in "Rhue's" time, but that's very speculatory evidence at best. It just seems like everyone makes the assumption that people don't age as fact, but unless I'm missing something I really can't see any reason they don't.

The girl could very easily be the age that Serena would be given the time since her death. And this might just be me wishfully thinking things really are this simple, but it seems kind of pointless from a storytelling perspective to have a red herring Serena without ever actually giving any actual hints to who the real one was, especially when Cetsa already fulfilled that roll for most of the series.

It's crude, but this entire time my synopsis of this whole mystery has been "C'mon guys it's so FUCKING OBVIOUSLY SERENA!!!"

I guess the compromise is that she's some idealized version of Serena based on Rhue/Jeruh's memories, which actually makes the most sense come to think of it, but I don't think there's any way of ruling out it's actually her.

[Kcrazy]

Your right there isn't much proof just accepted assumption. We don't have many characters to build evidence from, since most characters we notice in Dream Estrana have died with the span of the six games or just moments before the start of episode one. Midian is the only other character but we have no idea on when he died.

As far as the girl is concern, if she is Serena, she would have aged roughly ten years compared to Kava multiple generations, which yes age is hard to convey in rpg maker, but I feel confident Kava is not old enough to fit that description. So at the very least Kava is not aging, or not at an equal rate to "real time" vs "dream time". Kava could be a special case as you said, such as him being the pharaphylyn. Their is only one and they are uniquely marked so maybe that the case. But I doubt that, I'd feel that it's more likely that Serena is the special case as for some reason she aged while other did not.

[X-Calibar]

Midian *probably* hasn't been dead terribly long... He tracked down Jeruh using Rhue's body only weeks or days before, the Rhue as we know him lived.

IF there is a non-aging rule in most cases, Midian *looks* like the same age as Jeruh, and Lyrra in Dream Estrana. Chances are Midian only died to the PS somewhat recently. Probably...

[quote=EmperorJeramyu]I guess the compromise is that she's some idealized version of Serena based on Rhue/Jeruh's memories, which actually makes the most sense come to think of it, but I don't think there's any way of ruling out it's actually her.[/quote]
My thoughts too!

Speaking of the Girl... Another reason I like to think she's Serena - She didn't know any curse words like "Flaming fires of Janwen!" It could mean a lot of things of course, but... ignoring the appearence issue; it seems like a possible clue. As a little girl she probably hadn't heard many curses...

Perhaps she is the perfect Serena that Jeruh seeks? The girl could be like the player's Rhue. They are singularities born of another's mind/aura.
Rhue was Jeruh's creation, but Rhue evolved. Perhaps The Girl is Rhue's creation. The epitome of the idealized Serena, the original Rhue was seeking all this time. I say, "all this time" and "original Rhue" because, although the player made choices to begin to create your own Serena by interpeting the memories of Jeruh... I'm sure Jeruh/Rhue has been making up his OWN Serena for many years now, also probably colored somewhat from actually knowing Serena.

Whereas the second generation player Rhue had only just begun to create his idealized The Girl, Serena.

When you first meet her... who is she waiting for? Midian? That seemed the case at first glance. But, they never chat, or give any indication of knowing each other in front of the player.

I like to believe she was waiting for Rhue in an abstract way (well the Rhue that looked like Jeruh). She was always at the center of things "guiding" the player. Whether it was by working at the House of Pnoe, where hints of what comes next are abound; or by being the one who found you outside.
Rhue always looked to Serena to figure out what to do next... The Girl sort of fills that role in Dream Estrana...


(As for her actually being Serena... I would think that Midian or Lyrra would recognize The Girl as the real Serena, if it were actually her... or something to that effect)

[Sage Of The Wise]

I don't really care about the girl that much, because whether or not she is Serena doesn't really change what we know about anything else. Honestly I feel like she's not based off what we know about the universe, but it would certainly make sense for it to be her anyway, so whatever.

My one question would be what the original plan for the series was. What was going to happen in EP7 and beyond? or that episode that would have been EP4(i think) from Lyrra's point of view, what important stuff would have been learned from that? All that stuff cleverly asked as one question.

[the fondler]

I don't like to believe The Girl is Serena simply because that seems so obvious, after all this cryptic mystery she's The Girl the entire time. But I also want to believe she is significant somehow. I mean come on, she's in that picture of The Way next to Gaius on top left of the boards, that's gotta mean something!

Also, to go with the discussion about people age, there is a significant lack of children in The City and Rhue must've gathered several hundreds at Estrana, yet there are hardly children to be found. The only one I recall is the one outside of the Performance House (don't remember the actual name) saying how she wants to grow up to be an actor. It's always bugged me, it's not like the Phantom Slasher is against absorbing the aura of kids with the Landorian Massacre and all, so what happened to them? They're behind the closed doors is the most obvious and frustrating answer.

But enough of that, my biggest question would have to be is why the hell is Rhue, who's kind of a dick, such a chick magnet?

[EmperorJeramyu]

I don't like to believe The Girl is Serena simply because that seems so obvious, after all this cryptic mystery she's The Girl the entire time. But I also want to believe she is significant somehow. I mean come on, she's in that picture of The Way next to Gaius on top left of the boards, that's gotta mean something!

Well that's easy to say it's obvious NOW, since there's actually evidence that's been found, but otherwise it really wasn't obvious in a literal sense. It's was kind of an obvious guess to make, certainly, but as for that being the actual truth, that's kind of a "recent" development.

The evidence being the massive, obtuse scavenger hunt in the coding which ended with the message "Serena's hair was the same as her sister's.", which somehow the only thing people took from it was that Scatha was Serena's sister, despite the even bigger implication that The Girl is Serena, her and Scatha both having bright blonde hair. Yeah yeah, I know I made the point about sprites earlier, but this really does seem like a good connection.

But really, I think the real genius of this whole situation is that Lun is so good at weaving complex mysteries and training us to examine those, that he threw in a rather simple one knowing that we'd instinctively overlook the simple and correct solution searching for a greater mystery. I'm not trying to be funny either, I think that's exactly what he did.

[Kcrazy]

My one question would be what the original plan for the series was. What was going to happen in EP7 and beyond? or that episode that would have been EP4(i think) from Lyrra's point of view, what important stuff would have been learned from that? All that stuff cleverly asked as one question.

I didn't even know their was a planned Lyrra spin off, that's interesting. I can't see too many revelation made though.

It's always bugged me, it's not like the Phantom Slasher is against absorbing the aura of kids with the Landorian Massacre and all, so what happened to them? They're behind the closed doors is the most obvious and frustrating answer.

Well we're not entirely sure the Phantom Slasher is behind the Landorin Massacre. I believe chances are high, but it could easily have been another Shadow Sword or just a sword in general.

For me the one thing I'd like to know, is "who" killed Midian, I mean I know it was Rhue but who was in control at the time. Really I"d like a time line of his dominate auras or at least a more fleshed out one then the Kure > Kava > big gap > Midian > Jeruh/Rhue.

[Sage Of The Wise]

I didn't even know their was a planned Lyrra spin off, that's interesting. I can't see too many revelation made though.

If I remember correctly it was mentioned in an ancient Fwacho post. I should find it to make sure I'm not insane.

It's always bugged me, it's not like the Phantom Slasher is against absorbing the aura of kids with the Landorian Massacre and all, so what happened to them?

Like Kcrazy says, we're never told Jeruh finds a the Phantom Slasher, it could be any shadow sword. You'd think that Lun wouldn't throw in a random sword that's never found again in the series for such a pivotal role, so probably it be Phantom Slasher or Night Reaper. Probably not Ghost Horror since Kalmar seemed to have had that forever. (Personally I use that same logic to say it wasn't the PS either, but whatever) Also, isn't the Phantom Slasher supposed to be against killing kids?

The evidence being the massive, obtuse scavenger hunt in the coding which ended with the message "Serena's hair was the same as her sister's.", which somehow the only thing people took from it was that Scatha was Serena's sister, despite the even bigger implication that The Girl is Serena

I don't see how the "Serena's hair was the same as her sister's" clue points to the girl. The clue only gives information on who Serena is related to, not who Serena is, we already knew she was a blonde. Hell, here's a crackpot theory, if I really want to apply that clue to the girl, maybe the girl is Chasta.

[Kcrazy]

Like Kcrazy says, we're never told Jeruh finds a the Phantom Slasher, it could be any shadow sword. You'd think that Lun wouldn't throw in a random sword that's never found again in the series for such a pivotal role, so probably it be Phantom Slasher or Night Reaper. Probably not Ghost Horror since Kalmar seemed to have had that forever. (Personally I use that same logic to say it wasn't the PS either, but whatever) Also, isn't the Phantom Slasher supposed to be against killing kids?

Well even though Rhue has had the Phantom Slasher forever its possible it was taken from him for a brief moment by Jeruh. But the fact that the Slasher doesn't kill kids is the weird part, but maybe since the sword was being wielded by a child its perspective changed. I feel Jeruh did have the Slasher but that's just because I believe one of the two shadow figures has to be Rhue.