Old Post

=SPOILER ALERT= This is for those people who have FINISHED E6, and wish to discuss theories and stuff. Do NOT use it as a help board.

Moderators: Porter, EmperorJeramyu, Telephalsion

Old Post

Postby Kcrazy » Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:18 am

So Sage had a topic in Estrana about older post and how weird it was looking back. Well Inspired by this I took a look back and came across an interesting topic about images seen when Rhue absorbs his aura in episode four. The images are weird and vary in style, ones particularly easy to decipher while the others are a little more abstract. Just wandering if anyone else has seen them cause I definitely missed them in game and also if someone could shed some light as to what they are.

On a side note, it's pretty funny reading what people knew about The Way then versus now, the theories that were floating around.

Here the original post:
http://www.crestfallen.us/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=145&hilit=names
User avatar
Kcrazy
S1 Hilyn
 
Posts: 154
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 3:01 pm
Location: Shelby, Ohio

Re: Old Post

Postby Sage Of The Wise » Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:58 am

Well, lets go through them now.

Image
Not really sure what we're seeing here, its hard to tell exactly how many figures are in the picture. It could be bodies washing up on the shore. The slight blood trail also makes me think of the dead bodies found near the beginning of EP2, but I really don't have a good idea on this one.

Image
This one is pretty clear in retrospect. Its the Landorin Massacre, and now we can identify all the figures. Jeruh is the one with the sword, Serena is the one without a head, Lyrra is screaming off to the side, and Midian is floating down the river. No one would have expected that before EP6.

Image
This is the most obscure one. The sun flare implies its the sky, and its blood red, isn't this how the one guy in EP6 describes the rolling mists?

Image
Simple one compared to the rest, its the first scene in EP1, and the blood represents the PS.
And the Lord said unto John, "Come forth and receive eternal life." But John came fifth and won a toaster.
User avatar
Sage Of The Wise
S3 Deralyn
 
Posts: 3300
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 1:30 pm

Re: Old Post

Postby Kcrazy » Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:07 am

The first one is the only one I'm not so sure about. Like you said it's hard to tell exactly how many people are in it the picture but it appears to be two, one standing up and the other cut into pieces on the ground. Not sure what scene to relate it to. The other three I agree with you, definitely the Landorin Massacre, I'd say Rolling Mist is the only thing that would make sense that's Way related, and no doubt the opening scene from the series.

As far as not being able to predict the correct people in the Landorin Massacre, some on in that topic was pretty close, I think maybe even had the right people just off on motive.
User avatar
Kcrazy
S1 Hilyn
 
Posts: 154
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 3:01 pm
Location: Shelby, Ohio

Re: Old Post

Postby X-Calibar » Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:10 pm

Here's what I see :

Image

Image

Image

Image

I thought that on the upper left, looked like a butterfly...
But, on second look; maybe two blood red eyes, and from its mouth dribbling blood.

I'd have to watch the soul swapping part again, but perhaps with the combination of Rhue, Jeruh, Phantom Slasher; there was created Our Rhue and the PS shadow?

Alternatively, these are the various dominant auras/shadows : Rhue, Jeruh's creation... Must find Serena. Jeruh, the creator of the Rhue persona, hidden but was always there.
Phantom Slasher, the unknown existence, that gives life to...
"Our Rhue, the perfect slayer of any evil", whether it be human or monster?

Also, double alternatively :
The blood picture is a picture of the blank host body. The Mimic or whoever he could be.

Just some guesses~
User avatar
X-Calibar
Plyn
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:52 am

Re: Old Post

Postby Kcrazy » Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:35 pm

I like you picture one idea, the outlining helped out cause now I can def see Jeruh stumbling on the two shadow figures, which helps tie the images together a little better. With two images being the night of the Landorin Massacre and one being of the beginning of the Way, all being memories of the Jeruh/Rhue aura. Which makes the red image all that more odd to me cause it doesn't seem to tie in. I agree with Sage, it looks like the description the guy gives about the mist.
User avatar
Kcrazy
S1 Hilyn
 
Posts: 154
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 3:01 pm
Location: Shelby, Ohio

Re: Old Post

Postby X-Calibar » Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:59 pm

I'm assuming that the pictures aren't really supposed to represent memories as much as the various dominant auras that make up your player/Our Rhue.

Maybe Rhue, Jeruh, Our Rhue, and the Phantom Slasher all have their own auras or shadows?
Rhue was originally a persona created by Jeruh, and would be actually Jeruh...

But, now there is a seperate Rhue shadow/aura within the Phantom Slasher. Possibly created by the Phantom Slasher. He is a false creation, but the strength of this persona is overwhelming.

Jeruh's aura is the original Rhue/Jeruh, which also exists within the Phantom Slasher. He has the truth within, but it is pretty much locked away... literally.

Our Rhue, has yet another aura different than Rhue, and Jeruh... He probably gained his own Aura during this scene? He is reality or what has been our experiences throughout the game probably.

They all seem to share one body, all with similar thoughts and ideas; but Our Rhue is the dominant aura. It almost doesn't matter, except once freed from the Phantom Slasher, or master of the Phantom Slasher; he supposebly is now the one left with the Mimic's body.

ALTERNATIVELY, perhaps you are right, and all the pictures are connected. They are the locked away truth of what happened?
Pic 1 - You find the sword.
Pic 2 - You kill Serena, etc.
Pic 3 - You lose your mind to the sword, searching for Serena; maybe leaving a trail of bodies? Since he doesn't have the Phantom Slasher sword I guess? He is influenced by the whichever sword he has. But, eventually loses it I guess?
Pic 4 - Our Rhue with the PS.

I like the aura idea more, only because the scene is dealing with losing/gaining auras and crazy experiments like that. Although, perhaps he was able to see the truth when the various auras became free momentarily?
EDIT: Or perhaps, since the current Rhue is ... an oddity of life. The various pictures represent the fragments that make up Our Rhue's aura.


As for the mist stuff... Perhaps that Mist is actually, the Mimic, or the many bits and pieces of auras that have been collected by the PS over time. I mean the Mist WITHIN Dream Estrana is most likely unrepresentative of the actual Rolling Mists, as Dream Estrana isn't really representative of The Way's Estrana. It is more of an interpetation of some Aura's memories/shadows.

[only played the Way once, so I'm probably totally off :O]
I--I'm now a Plyn!
User avatar
X-Calibar
Plyn
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:52 am

Re: Old Post

Postby Sage Of The Wise » Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:04 am

He probably gained his own Aura during this scene?

That's an interesting idea, but I don't think so. The scene plays out like this, Jopaga uses the formula on Rhue, a lot of it, and he prepares to absorb Rhue's aura, but then Rhue apparently reabsorbs it, just like he seemed to do with Cade. But what it really is is the sword absorbing it obviously. Hell, it even levels up. So basically, after this point Rhue is in a state where his aura is attached to the sword and not him (which is probably terrible for ones sanity). Its after this point that he gains access to Dream Estrana, which makes sense, with his aura now owning a summer home there.
And the Lord said unto John, "Come forth and receive eternal life." But John came fifth and won a toaster.
User avatar
Sage Of The Wise
S3 Deralyn
 
Posts: 3300
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 1:30 pm

Re: Old Post

Postby X-Calibar » Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:08 pm

That seems to be a sound explanation... but, what about the pictures? Don't they hold some significance into what is transpiring? ...... I really need to- (YES WE KNOW! YOU NEED TO PLAY IT AGAIN!)

I guess you could say that those images are all part of Rhue's aura.

Although...

Did the sword level up because it absorbs Rhue's aura?
Did the sword level up because it absorbs Cade's aura?
Did the sword level up because it absorbs Lyrra's father's aura?

One common link, yes it absorbs a new aura. That could explain it simply.
But... Why does Lyrra's father unlock powers? Rhue can kill countless people throughout the game.
Why doesn't Rhue level up any other time?

Well, what else do the two events have in common...

Both are connected to the Landorin/Rhue/Jeruh events.
-Lyrra's father, who was there in the aftermath of the massacre.

-I don't know about Cade. But, during the Aura shifting; we got pictures probably related to Landorin/Rhue/Jeruh events.

Both are emotional turning points?
-Deciding to kill Lyrra's father as per his wishes probably affected him heavily.

-During the aura shift event, maybe you are catching glimpses of the truth of what happened. Perhaps Rhue saw the truth right then, and even though it was "just a dream" or "incomprehensible"; it could have affected him heavily.

Both are beneficial to the Phantom's power?
-Deciding to kill Lyrra's father eliminates any weakness or hesitation Rhue might have had about killing. Marking a milestone in Rhue becoming a slayer.

-If Rhue/Mimic has an aura of his own like your theory. (Leftovers from Jeruh?) Now that it has been absorbed by the sword. The Phantom has greater control or influence on Rhue. Thus, why he is locked in the tower?

Both are beneficial to Rhue's identity?
-Killing Lyrra's father, hides a piece/side of the truth Rhue could have discovered. If he had known about Lyrra, he might have discovered the truth.

-During the aura shift, maybe like your theory says, Rhue's aura is absorbed into the sword; and this gives the Phantom the ability to better hide the truth, by burying the auras and their information within itself. No more dreams about the truth. (Maybe the moment the world was created within? Not Dream Estrana yet, but soon to be?)

Rhue or Cade, and Lyrra's father have amazing powers
-Lyrra's father happened to wield the powers of fire and air...

-Rhue (or Cade) wields transcendent powers


Also -
There are Four images... and four powers are gained for your sword...
A connection perhaps?
User avatar
X-Calibar
Plyn
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:52 am

Re: Old Post

Postby Kcrazy » Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:21 pm

Sage Of The Wise wrote:That's an interesting idea, but I don't think so. The scene plays out like this, Jopaga uses the formula on Rhue, a lot of it, and he prepares to absorb Rhue's aura, but then Rhue apparently reabsorbs it, just like he seemed to do with Cade. But what it really is is the sword absorbing it obviously. Hell, it even levels up. So basically, after this point Rhue is in a state where his aura is attached to the sword and not him (which is probably terrible for ones sanity). Its after this point that he gains access to Dream Estrana, which makes sense, with his aura now owning a summer home there.


If his aura was absorbed by the sword, and the sword was destroyed be Trazium, then is Rhue auraless at the end of episode six?
User avatar
Kcrazy
S1 Hilyn
 
Posts: 154
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 3:01 pm
Location: Shelby, Ohio

Re: Old Post

Postby Sage Of The Wise » Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:50 pm

I had actually been thinking about that when I was writing that. I don't think he's auraless, at least based on what we've seen that's like. So maybe breaking the sword releases the auras as opposed to destroying them, and he just regained his.
And the Lord said unto John, "Come forth and receive eternal life." But John came fifth and won a toaster.
User avatar
Sage Of The Wise
S3 Deralyn
 
Posts: 3300
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 1:30 pm

Re: Old Post

Postby Kcrazy » Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:15 pm

Sage Of The Wise wrote:I had actually been thinking about that when I was writing that. I don't think he's auraless, at least based on what we've seen that's like. So maybe breaking the sword releases the auras as opposed to destroying them, and he just regained his.


Yeah I think it's an interesting topic that we haven't really given much thought. I always felt Rhue original identity was auraless, seeing how he seems to be effected by the shadow sword differently then the others who have used them. Granted the only other person we have with extended use of a shadow sword is Kalmar. For the most part he seems normal, so I always believed their was something unique about Rhue that gave him the reaction to the sword. And what I came up with is Rhue is auraless which allow new auras to flow in and out.
User avatar
Kcrazy
S1 Hilyn
 
Posts: 154
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 3:01 pm
Location: Shelby, Ohio

Re: Old Post

Postby Sage Of The Wise » Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:02 pm

Huge amounts of speculation on this one, but probably the most complete theory on Rhue's origins would make him 'Venge', the son of the Lord Below, who's aura was destroyed in that aura-destroying blast during the destruction of Janwen. So after that he would be auraless. But according to Jopaga aura's grow back or somthing
And the Lord said unto John, "Come forth and receive eternal life." But John came fifth and won a toaster.
User avatar
Sage Of The Wise
S3 Deralyn
 
Posts: 3300
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 1:30 pm

Re: Old Post

Postby Tackarii » Tue Sep 22, 2020 2:08 pm

Necro, but all posts are necro now, so forgive me.

Thought on the red pic: It's the only one from Venge's point of view, after he cut the Lord Below and, per the little sewer poem from under the waterfall, that caused a rush of red mist to blast up to Janwen. The Bright light is either the sun, or the Lord Below sending his aurablast attack.

If so, maybe this would be Venge's last memory with a personal Aura. And he didn't die from it, so it sticks. For the mist, M20 man also mentions red mist. Also, Fwaccho said
fwacho wrote:I've seen a very sweet fan art of the mists. some day I hope Lun will post it for you as well. they're real.. but as in all things in life they may not be exactly what you expected... they could be much, much worse.


And a final bit of interest on the sewer poem being in Lun's mist idea are a few Notes from just before Rhue's party opens Jeruh's cell:
Note: The frame is a still shot. Paused till I play it out. The script may be boring though.
Having a co-writer with completely different ideas is difficult.
Note: I've looked at a few scripts. They didn't make me happy at all.
That's precisely why I always write my own with an editor in tow.
Note: It turns out the way I want it that way. And even if I don't like it, it seems right. Right as
rain, ripped from the clouds by the earth's dense core.


Which is a clear reference to the sewer poem/note. And it's meaning, I'd say.

Less useful: There is also an enemy golem/earth boss in the Phantom's Edge called "Core". I don't know how to reconcile being in PS vs something the Lord Below had (even though his 'saw' broke, it may have gotten a bit of it), but dang...that baddy seems like it's also touching this point. Maybe the saw broke into the swords, lol. I digress.


Getting into history beyond the art above here, but hey:
What follows Venge cutting his father would be the mist geyser into Janwen and the aura blast - (which may be the same thing. I can really see a church being built on 'get away from the zombie mist! We'll protect you now that the Lyn made this mess'. And that eventually turning into a power game of 'Tetzel says', and 'Lyn are stupid'. Look up the real-life Tetzel, just saying)

Then the supposed shadow blade massacre between the auraless wielders (per Sage's idea), which Venge with his father's aura driving him would win, and then be the only one to come eat up any few survivors in Janwen, placing M20 in the sword. That would allow a period long enough from the mist to the sword taking M20 man that he can recall the mist before his death, perhaps. Then who knows which kill swapped the aura after that. As for why Venge didn't get his Aura back over time per Jopaga's claim that they regrow...well, Venge was holding an aura eating sword all the time? Also, Cade certainly didn't seem to 'get his aura back' so Jopaga may be sugar-coating that pill a bit...

While on the topic of Venge...Avenge may have been his name before he lost something due to the Lord Below. And he almost certainly had something to avenge since we know he turned against his father. I really tried to see if The Girl being his human Girl and dying due to Lord Below's order pre-"Fires of Janwen" could fit, but for her to be in a blade that was in all likelihood outside the Lord Below's power I can't see it without a whole mess of suppositions.

Which leads me to another tangent on the Mimic: A thought about how/why Mimic may work differently than other shadow swords. Maybe already known? Sorry if so, but if not...
- The empty vessel of a body may mean the auras can just fight for control, with the winner getting the body. The losing auras don't commit suicide, just regress into the quietness of the sword. Over-simplified, cuz Rhue ain't exactly sane, but you get the gist.
- Vs in a normal body with an aura: Perhaps if the wielder succumbs to the auras the auras simply can't take his place...his mind just breaks and he goes insane from the pressure/whispers. With no way for them to shift him under while a more dominant aura takes control, his mind is just chipped down until it's insane. Suicidally insane, to stop the voices, to be exact. They can influence the wielder, but if he ever loses hold of his sanity...he dead. Kalmar likely learned to prune the auras in his sword, if I had to guess.

All that could be grand. Or maybe not. But just adding my 2 cents.

- - - - - - - - - - - -
Back to the art:
2nd Thought on the red art: Pic of red and glint of light could possibly be the locket artistically covered in blood. I'm not certain, but it's another idea.


Thanks for letting me be a part of the community. I lurked forever as a guest and..yup. Finally joined, lol

Edit: Stupidness with quote mechanic and other stuff
Tackarii
Wanderer
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:36 pm

Re: Old Post

Postby Tackarii » Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:14 pm

I'm a newb (comparatively. I've lurked for about 12 years I think) so forgive the excited posts from 'outside'. I state some things overly firmly below, and so I state here: Ignore/forgive my excitement.

That said...my (likely) final addition unless I hear back from some other ghosts on here: If no other shadow sword makes you go comatose... since they make you kill yourself, go crazy, but not comatose. Then...well...We hear Jeruh, in the top of the tower, sharing what happened in the Landorin Stretch. The body with the sword in it. And the one comatose, babbling nonsense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APr7PPloOIE
(Thank you Flashwit. Also for your LP that gave soooo much info. Really top-notch with the notes added below the screenshots!)

This, to me, confirms the identity of the person as near to completely as I need. And that said, it opens a lot of doors that open a lot of doors, and to me...ends up tying off several loose ends.

It leads to which sword was there being PS. And it was "Justice" or "Righteous Anger" motivated. While adults can't hold children accountable, a child can. And it was Jeruh's over-riding cause.

Which leads to how Midian got it when Jeruh dropped it in his self-made, not-the-swords-doing identity crisis (hinted in the same video above on Jeruh's account). Midian went back, and found it. Trained with it. But who would try to get the sword back?

Then I thought, who was the corpse, that the comatose person was becoming? Eyshua is the only one I can think of for the corpse...as for if Eyashu was in the mimic body, then I'm stumped. But the corpse tells us the person.... could it be Abuta (or "nameless", if that is a curse word etc) who serves the Guided? The one time we see him take Mimic's body in game he fights the Lyn like Venge or Kava etc wouldn't. And he zealously wanted that more than any other aura's remaining desire. (Also I refuse to think it's a wholly nameless Mimic.)

Regardless of buying Aubuta being the one in charge in the Lyn fight scene, Aubuta (or nameless) would be a loyal, likely zealous, Guided servant sent to kill Eyashu, to protect the secret of The End of The Way. He would be the tool of the Guided, and would need to silence anyone who knew about the incident in Landorin (maybe removing the bodies, maybe the sword does that). And get their sword back. So they stalk the sword for years, and find Midian, eventually getting the sword and killing him with it...and then we get the older Midian inside the sword. His mission of zeal done, "Abuta" (or nameless Guided person) sinks under Midian's aura.

The rest is as we know it. Midian finds Jeruh, Jeruh is living as Rhue. Our game begins.

[One sticky point is how does Midian get back and take the sword before Aubuta wakes? I can imagine a few reasons, some involving the sword with Eyashu's aura being taken away before Mimic had resolved on who would lead. In the end, I settle that this is closer to answering many questions than other theories, and requires less of a leap to close the gaps.]


So in short:

Mimic's Body:
...->Aubuta->lost sword sequence (see below)->Midian->Jeruh's Rhue

Lost sword sequence:
From Aubuta (loses it)->Jeruh (finds uses and drops it)->Midian (finds and trains for years)->Aubuta (kills Midian with it and regains it)

It is the only sequence I can see where Midian meets the sword in a logical, non-plot-forcing way. Else the sword is magically happen-stancing on killing Midian after years doing who knows what with no-name characters. Also, the comatose thing really seals me to the killer being Mimic.

Aaand no other sword has the shadow body trait that we know of. Add to that that the tales spread by Tetzel are about PS, and only the PS, that suggests that it is the sword he HAD. And could have sent on a mission to sow fear for whatever reasons he was already doing that. Another (much less direct I admit) connecting fact that fits easily.

- - - - - - - - - - - - -

And for laughs, here is a full sequence, including junk I haven't talked about and my own pet thoughts. Even if I state it as fact, it's all my opinion, so don't hurt me too much lol:

- Demon/Lord Below/Human (Uses this normal sword to kill Arcturus, who becomes Arctura inside the sword and makes the sword an Illuminati as all weapons pick up a bit of the aura of people they kill. A bit of a heavenly being is enough to make an Illuminati.)

Demon gets rid of it, as it's useless to him now. (Can't see an Illuminati being able to kill anyone a Demon would target, but who knows)
Lord Below ticks off son Avenge somehow (pet story about The Girl here. Hard to make it work, but SOMETHING ticked Venge off)

- Avenge renames to Venge at the loss, and picks up Illuminati to fight him. Something the Sword is on board with.

Soaks up bit of Lord Below and big ol aura-blasting mist-fest occurs (as cutting Lord Below causes geyser of red, per my above post)

- Venge becomes Mimic in blast, kills the other sword-holders and Janwen suffers. Guided teach to avoid demons, settling, mists, making Janwen-zombie-town the impetus for change that becomes a religion (though if only Venge's sword struck the Lord Below, is that really where shadow blades came from? Why are ALL the swords shadow blades? Did... Venge have the one that didn't show up, did a number on his dad alone, and the summoning pits deal was it's own fun times.)
- ...(various people, including M20 getting killed though likely not the leading aura)
- Kura (I wonder what his driving cause was that allowed him to be dominant?)
- Kavax/Kava (We know his...We also know his lover must have been killed enough before him for him to remember, and thus have reason to hate Kura enough to killed Guided camp...and later in the DE say he 'forgives' Kura.)
- ...(people)
- "Aubuta" (Zeal for Tetzel/Guided. Hates Lyn? Never has his over arching goal for the Guided achived, as Tetzel is not done yet?)
- Sword loss sequence
- Midian (Who in the sword says he has lost his taste for vengeance, when he hears Jeruh tell his story about the cursed sword. Again, forgiveness)
- Jeruh's Rhue (Serena)
- Moment of Aubuta in Lyn Keep
- Jeruh's Rhue (Serena)
- Destroyed sword (in my favorite ending) and the Vengeful side of Rhue (his original body's trait, but in the sword due to Jopaga-like attack of Lord Below) is left behind in the Blade (and he doesn't take up Ghost Horror)

- Our not-a-Mimic not-Rhue. Lives with Kloe, can't paint.

Or your selected ending of choice.
Tackarii
Wanderer
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:36 pm


Return to POST-EPISODE 6 Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests

cron