BETA TOPIC: The Theory Compilation (Spoilers)

[Impossible]

<Strayed> did you watch the canyon event imp?
<Impossible`> Yes.
<Impossible`> Well, I read it.
<Strayed> just throw the start in there and watch
<Impossible`> I need to watch it? Okay...
<Strayed> well, it kinda has a better feeling to it...
<Impossible`> ...The event just repeats.
<Impossible`> It's really weird, too. Hey, and it has unique faces for Rhue, I think. Never seen those mouths with closed eyes before.
<Impossible`> Why would a scene not even in the game have original faces? o_O
<Impossible`> What IS that scene meant to mean, anyway...?
<Strayed> It's a dropped ending obviously.
<Impossible`> With Rhue saying that things will get interesting...
<Impossible`> Feels like a dropped "beginning". Like, Lun has more than E6 planned?
<Impossible`> Or did he... *gasp* CHANGE HIS MIND and decide to end with E6?
<Impossible`> That would be so unfair. Lun gets sick of The Way and thus decides to leave a billion loose ends and just finish the story.
<Strayed> it's a type of ending, they do that stuff all the time.... the "It's not really the end, it's more of a beginning" thing.
<Impossible`> But The Way really didn't feel like it should have ended yet.
<Strayed> he rushed it, we know that.
<Impossible`> ?
<Impossible`> Everything before the dialogue with Kloe felt very much NOT like a final episode.
<Impossible`> The whole episode was littered with the usual Way-foreshadowing and mysteries and new characters we know nothing about and mentions of stuff that will be important...
<Impossible`> Then it ends.
<Impossible`> Then again, how can we judge what stuff "will be important"? *coughTetzelcough*
<Impossible`> *coughDirkcough*
<Impossible`> *coughScathacough*
<Impossible`> *coughTheBookscough*
<Strayed> I really think Tetzel was just a way to keep Rhue moving
<Impossible`> *coughGaiuscough*
<Impossible`> And so on, and so forth.
<Strayed> Gaius was always going to be a mystery, that was clear from episode 1.
<Strayed> Dirk though... probably could use something.
<Impossible`> Lun MUST have had a reason for leaving Gaius so ambiguous, even in the final scene.
<Strayed> I think he felt Scatha was explained well enough by identifying her as Slade's sister.
<Impossible`> Either he couldn't be fucked, which would be unfair, or he has more...
<Impossible`> Scatha WASN'T explained well enough because of her last dialogue in E3.
<Impossible`> At the end of the Pits. That wasn't explained.
<Strayed> it follows my theories...
<Impossible`> ?
<Strayed> at least to a point, the body met scatha while another aura was in control
<Strayed> like Midian and the headhunters
<Impossible`> Maybe...
<Strayed> the body met the headhunters while midian was in control, and he introduced himself as midian when they first met
<Impossible`> That just doesn't sound right to me - maybe because Lun never explained what the hell Rhue's body IS.
<Impossible`> Who it is, I mean.
<Strayed> that's why we have kura
<Strayed> kavax just sounds like a madman... but it makes sense
<Impossible`> It makes sense for Scatha to have met Jeruh, if that note Lun left means what it seems to.
<Strayed> she says his name is different
<Impossible`> Kavax and his lines were the kind of foreshadowing and new mysteries that E6 was littered with despite being the end.
<Strayed> not his body, the real jeruh was a different body
<Impossible`> I know that.
<Impossible`> Did Rhue mention Serena in the Pits?
<Impossible`> By name?
<Impossible`> Remember, Scatha knew Serena.
<Impossible`> And Jeruh knew Serena.
<Strayed> cant remember... could check the events
<Impossible`> So it's more likely that Scatha knew Jeruh.
<Impossible`> Oh, Rhue DID mention her.
<Strayed> he mentions her when he's talking to himself, I know that
<Strayed> and she is on the other side of the room
<Impossible`> No, not that.
<Impossible`> Scatha: I didn't NEED or ASSSK for your
<Impossible`> help,\.\. you little PERVERT!
<Impossible`> Rhue: Pervert?!\| What are you talking
<Impossible`> about?
<Impossible`> Scatha: You know exaaaactly what I
<Impossible`> mean!\| Putting your GRIMY
<Impossible`> handsss all over me the way
<Impossible`> you did!!
<Impossible`> You must be desssperate for affection.\|
<Impossible`> Rhue: No I'm not!!!\| If I wanted
<Impossible`> affection I sure wouldn't
<Impossible`> want it from you!
<Impossible`> I've already got a girl!\| Her
<Impossible`> name is Serena and she loves
<Impossible`> me!!!
<Strayed> yeah, I see more dialogue about serena.
<Impossible`> And that's when Scatha's attitude changes, too.
<Strayed> If you really loved thisss girl that
<Strayed> you ssspeak of,\.\. Ssserena,\|
<Strayed> you would have already
<Strayed> found her.
<Impossible`> And she wouldn't necessarily recognise someone years later. She thought that Rhue was Jeruh.
<Impossible`> Funnily enough... "Her name is Serena and she loves me!!!" How wrong is that?
<Strayed> yeah, I get that, but I still have trouble believing Lun wouldnt make Slade react to Rhue at all.
<Strayed> if serena was the sister, that is
<Strayed> err, scatha..
<Impossible`> Hey, yeah, didn't Rhue mention Serena to Slade in E5?
<Strayed> Dunno, I'd have to go through it
<Impossible`> I will.
<Strayed> these ghost horror switches confuse me... it could be an end to the whole Blood Lyn thing with Traziun and Gaius...
<Impossible`> "Leave Serena out of this!" "Who's Serena? I'm talking about Cetsa!"
<Strayed> you'd think he'd at least make a remark at the name
<Impossible`> Weird.
<Impossible`> Maybe it was just Lun trying to hide it. >_<
<Impossible`> Scatha knew Serena and Scatha is Slade's sister.
<Strayed> I think he'd use an opportunity like that to leave a clue
<Impossible`> Me too.
<Strayed> what is the 4th shadow swords name?
<Impossible`> ?
<Strayed> Night Reaper, Phantom Slasher, Ghost Horror
<Strayed> what else?
<Impossible`> Is there another one in the sotry?
<Impossible`> *story
<Strayed> there are supposed to be 4
<Strayed> I'm thinking it's Blana Sera...
<Impossible`> Why 4?
<Strayed> I couldve sworn they mentioned 4...
<Impossible`> I don't remember anything like that.
<Strayed> hmmm, weird... I thought there were 4.
<Strayed> just... the Blana Sera would make sense...
<Impossible`> Why?
<Strayed> Rhue hears voices from the sword that are Similar to the Blana Sera's voices... the blana sera are obviously a form of collective conscience.
<Strayed> what if a shadow sword did destroy someones aura completely...
<Impossible`> The Blana Sera is Kalmar, evidently.
<Impossible`> At least, it seems that way.
<Strayed> youd have a shitload of auras sitting together...
<Impossible`> Who uses Ghost Horror.
<Impossible`> Also, who IS the voice speaking to Rhue near the end of E6? The one who says that Serena is the PS.
<Impossible`> And how did they contact him there?
<Strayed> that's the PS
<Strayed> he's trying to save himself
<Impossible`> o_O
<Impossible`> You sure?
<Impossible`> How do we know that?
<Strayed> yeah, look at it
<Strayed> he acts the same way
<Impossible`> Why would opening the door have endangered the PS/
<Impossible`> *?
<Impossible`> It was Traziun who destroyed it.
<Strayed> it killed him in the end
<Strayed> the PS avatar was destroyed before the sword was.
<Strayed> at least that is how it seems
<Strayed> I really don't think the avatar is the sword, it's just a free floating aura that's connected to the sword.
<Strayed> and by how I think it, Kura.
<Strayed> at least the remnant.
<Impossible`> Oh! The voice's last line was "Please... Save us."
<Impossible`> I don't really get how opening the door directly endangered the PS, though.
<Strayed> Rhue rejected the PS because he entered the tower.
<Strayed> he discovered that he wasn't truly himself.
<Impossible`> Well, he discovered that Serena was dead.
<Impossible`> But how would that really matter to the PS?
<Strayed> he discovered he wasn't rhue
<Impossible`> So...
<Impossible`> I'm just thinking about what impact that would have on the PS.
<Impossible`> Or the sword.
<Impossible`> Did he really know what Rhue would do after that?
<Impossible`> I wouldn't think it would be possible to tell.
<Strayed> well, if he is Kura, and he's been around that long, I'm sure you have a sense for those kinda things... but that's not the point.
<Strayed> I'm sure he did know Rhue would react badly to knowing everything was a lie.
<Strayed> and what else did he have to blame...
<Impossible`> Yes, I think the voice being the PS makes sense.
<Impossible`> But a million other things still don't make sense.
<Strayed> I'm still going with my ruling about the PS avatar being Kura's residual aura and the dominant aura idea.
<Strayed> it fits too well
<Strayed> but what confuses me is...
<Strayed> Certainly you once had a name,\.\.
<Strayed> but what it was,\.\. even I do not
<Strayed> know.
<Impossible`> So why did Kavax call Rhue Kura?
<Strayed> because it's Kura's body.
<Impossible`> That's confusing...
<Strayed> the body hasn't aged at all, the shadow sword prevents aging.
<Impossible`> Kava's body, and the PS is his aura.
<Impossible`> From when Jeruh pushed it out?
<Strayed> Jeruh didn't push Kura out
<Strayed> kura was removed a long time ago
<Strayed> the red haired woman gives clues to that
<Impossible`> How was Kura "removed"?
<Impossible`> The Phantom Slasher only came around at the start of E1.
<Impossible`> Which we know was right after Nameless Wanderer/Kura/Rhue became Rhue.
<Strayed> that's when the avatar first started doing anything
<Strayed> we don't know if he was just sitting around, or existed as something else
<Strayed> anyway
<Strayed> WOMAN: Don't ask me.\.\. I do know that if you
<Strayed> did find him,\.\. he wouldn't talk to you.\.\.\. He
<Strayed> would only destroy you.
<Strayed> mmmhmm...
<Impossible`> Why did the "avatar" start doing anything THEN?
<Impossible`> What was Kura's aura trying to accomplish?
<Strayed> survival
<Impossible`> By randomly killing people?
<Strayed> nm
<Strayed> that was a reflex answer.
<Impossible`> What did he want "Rhue" to do?
<Strayed> I'm not sure he actually wanted Rhue to do anything except live, but why he began killing, I'm not sure.
<Impossible`> If he didn't want Rhue to do anything but live, then why was he desperate to stop him from going through the door?
<Impossible`> Did he think it would kill him? (Well, he said it would!)
<Strayed> the avatar seems to need everything alive to survive, the sword itself, his own aura as the avatar and the host body
<Impossible`> So what was Kura doing killing Jeruh in the first place?
<Strayed> he was midian
<Impossible`> Whose aura was in control before he killed Midian, then?
<Strayed> I'm not sure, could just be a random guy, or it could be someone I didn't think of yet
<Impossible`> Damn Lun...
<Strayed> but Midian was definitely in control of the body at some point, it explains why the headhunters react that way and why he killed jeruh
<Impossible`> Actually, that explains a lot!
<Strayed> it explains everything except landorin
<Strayed> what sword was that, and if it was the Phantom Slasher, why was it there.
<Impossible`> The Headhunter met both Midian and Rhue in Kura's body.
<Strayed> exactly
<Strayed> he introduced himself as midian
<Impossible`> But who was the Headhunter looking for Jeruh in E1?
<Strayed> the headhunters DO NOT sense auras
<Impossible`> Doesn't seem that way, no.
<Impossible`> Never sounded right anyway
<Strayed> midian must've put a wanted poster up or something
<Impossible`> The key was always the fact that they just talked weeks ago. That was a huge clue.
<Impossible`> And we DID pick up on it, but we figured that Landorin was much earlier, so we left it alone.
<Impossible`> Hey, maybe he did.
<Strayed> I'm spending most of my time looking for clues to piece together landorin
<Impossible`> He got the Headhunter to find him.
<Impossible`> They are, like, hired mercenaries.
<Strayed> exactly
<Impossible`> A lot more stuff makes sense now.
<Impossible`> Except for Landorin and Kura, we can actually piece together Rhue's story.
<Strayed> Lun ended more than it seems at first, just not by saying it outright
<Strayed> there is a reason I don't read the estrana forums...
<Impossible`> Geez, well where does that leave me writing a novelization? Books usually say everything that's absolutely necessary for the story to make sense outright.
<Impossible`> And the Way still has so damn many loose ends.
<Strayed> I think he has another part left for final release
<Impossible`> That would be nice...
<Impossible`> But even one more bit can't explain everything.
<Impossible`> We need a solid explanation of a few things.
<Strayed> the only part of the story I care about is the body, Kura/Rhue/Midian/WHATEVER
<Impossible`> Even if Lun chooses to completely abandon the Tetzel and Dirk part of the plot.
<Impossible`> Not to mention Eyashu, who we never learnt a thing about.
<Impossible`> Odd that Sacrifa brought it all up at the start of E6, though.
<Impossible`> And even raised more questions about Tetzel and the Purpose.
<Strayed> Eyashu is dead... couldve actually been in Kura's body at some point
<Impossible`> Yes, Eyashu is dead.
<Strayed> but I think we wouldve seen him in the city or something
<Impossible`> Because he learnt the truth about the End of the Way.
<Impossible`> Which was all part of the Tetzel subplot.
<Impossible`> Which was never mentioned again or resolved.
<Strayed> one of the blood lyn still has the Ghost Horror though, that's unanswered
<Impossible`> What?
<Impossible`> Ghost Horror is in the cliff in the credits.
<Strayed> that's night reaper
<Impossible`> What?
<Strayed> the sword traziun picked up was night reaper
<Impossible`> Not the sword Rhue and Kloe look at.
<Impossible`> The one on the cliff before that.
<Strayed> I know
<Impossible`> When Rhue killed Lyrra, Ghost Horror was sent flying.
<Impossible`> It makes sense that it landed on the cliff there.
<Strayed> I dont believe we ever saw Ghost Horror
<Impossible`> We don't really know what happened to Night Reaper.
<Impossible`> We didn't see what Traziun did with it.
<Impossible`> But there are two swords in the credits.
<Impossible`> Actually, I don't get that. WHAT THE HELL is the significance of the sword in the very end?
<Strayed> the sword that Rhue and Kloe see could just be a regular sword that Rhue would pick up and use as his own
<Impossible`> The one in the cliff is a LOT more likely to be Ghost Horror than Night Reaper.
<Impossible`> They walked away from it, actually.
<Strayed> I really dont think we've seen Ghost Horror
<Impossible`> There must be SOME point to it.
<Impossible`> Why can't the sword in the cliff be Ghost Horror?
<Impossible`> Why would Traziun have shoved his sword into a cliff face?
<Strayed> I just don't remember seeing Ghost Horror, only hearing it mentioned
<Impossible`> And the sword is bloody, from Lyrra.
<Impossible`> In the "Credit 2" map... Why on Earth would that be Night Reaper?
<Strayed> where did Lyrra get that sword?
<Impossible`> It "went to another", or whatever Kalmar said.
<Strayed> oh yeah...
<Impossible`> Not that we ever found out the truth about that, of course, like EVERYTHING ELSE.
<Strayed> that's the same cliff traziun stands on in E5
<Impossible`> We assumed it was supposed to go to Slade.
<Impossible`> Is it? o_O
<Strayed> believe so
<Strayed> yup
<Impossible`> Oh, it is!
<Strayed> hehe, places it perfectly as night reaper, he tossed the sword before meeting up with Rhue
<Impossible`> Wow, that means you're right.
<Impossible`> >_<
<Strayed> which again puts Ghost Horror in someones hands
<Impossible`> Damn Lun!
<Impossible`> Lun leaves yet ANOTHER FUCKING LOOSE END, we don't know about Ghost Horror.
<Impossible`> Unless it flew off and landed in the ground, and is the sword in the last screen.
<Strayed> and Traziun's death confuses me, he is able to destroy a shadow sword by stabbing himself with it
<Impossible`> Which would be dumb.
<Strayed> he makes it feel remorse...
<Impossible`> Yes, I was about to say that.
<Strayed> which would make me think traziun is a sword himself..
<Strayed> which doesnt fit the rest of it
<Impossible`> Supporting the idea of Shadow Swords being the same as Illuminati, arguable.
<Impossible`> *arguably
<Impossible`> Traziun never really did anything bad... Besides murder countless Blood Lyn.
<Strayed> I always thought they were pretty much the same, they almost say it in E6
<Strayed> the swords only desire strong auras
<Impossible`> Except they don't.
<Impossible`> They say that all the Illuminati but one were destroyed.
<Strayed> I dont think they want anything besides that
<Impossible`> And never explain what happened to that sword, or why on earth we were told about the Illuminati.
<Strayed> which part was that again?
<Impossible`> Of course, that was senseless foreshadowing right near the end of the game! -_-
<Impossible`> Random, unnamed, unexplained guy in the Pits tells you all about Illuminati.
<Impossible`> Okay, I REALLY have to go now, we'll finish this later.

[Strayed Wanderer]

Wow, you post fast.... so let us understand something.

Who actually pays attention to the story and pieces it together in a sensible way? Mmmhmm.

Sorry, after talking with Impossible for a while, I felt I had to get rid of some unused assholishness.

I actually took a look at the beginning of this thread now, and I realize that Trihan actually possesses sense. Apparently you guys did figure out the creation of the Phantom Slasher avatar being the only way for the wielder to survive, but you just picked a body that would've more easily gone with the Ghost Horror. Unfortunetly, the sword was also moved around too much, saying that the body (Rhue) retrieves the sword from Jeruh when he kills him... I don't think we ever see a sword change hands there.

On another note, I refuse to read Alundra's posts... they hurt my eyes to read.

[Telephalsion]

didn't someone say that there had been other things like the PS in the past?

[Strayed Wanderer]

I think I remember something to that effect, I'll look for it later.

[Telephalsion]

Hmm, Lets see, Traziun had a shadow sword, from lide I assume, fought Kalmar with it, kalmars sword flew off and landed in the room where slade was laying, he then woke up, left didn't get the swor, lyrra got chased in there by a lyn and then we see her charge at rhue with a sword, all manicall and stuff, frankly I don't think she'd be able to beat lyns without a shadow sword. Rhue knocks that sword away, (he has a habit of doing that doesn't he?) my guess is that that that sword is the one rhue and kloe sees, unless it's just used as a tombstone for somene, trazuin maybe.
Traziun stabbed his sword into the cliff right? And rhues sword got destroyed. That's three swords. Check the bookcase in estrana with the illuminati names, see how many they were, might give some further clues, or not.

[Sage Of The Wise]

Weird, for me The Canyon map has no event, its just a picture. Maby its only in the wave 7 version, wonder why...

[Impossible]

Okay, I'll get the text. It's all from Rhue, obviously.

(What a long journey...)
(It's strange how things worked out.)
(I felt so tired and sick that all I could think about was the end.)
(And when it came, I was happy.)
(But it's strange...)
(It isn't the end. And it's really
not even much of a beginning.)
(But... It's something.)
"And finally, things can get really
interesting."

I'm still kind of scared that the reason why E6 was so inconclusive was Lun just deciding he'd done enough, so we'll never really know what happened, despite the huge amounts of foreshadowing. This ditched ending may even support that, as if Lun had something "really interesting" planned. Why would Lun leave so many mysteries to the point where there are plotholes?

[Sage Of The Wise]

Definatly sounds like Lun talking and not Rhue. But that last line does sound promising. Unless Lun thinks the majority of his fan base not liking the ending interesting.

[Strayed Wanderer]

They all have Rhue's faces, it's definitely Rhue talking.... thinking.

[Wellsy]

Okay, I'll get the text. It's all from Rhue, obviously.

(What a long journey...)
(It's strange how things worked out.)
(I felt so tired and sick that all I could think about was the end.)
(And when it came, I was happy.)
(But it's strange...)
(It isn't the end. And it's really
not even much of a beginning.)
(But... It's something.)
"And finally, things can get really
interesting."

I'm still kind of scared that the reason why E6 was so inconclusive was Lun just deciding he'd done enough, so we'll never really know what happened, despite the huge amounts of foreshadowing. This ditched ending may even support that, as if Lun had something "really interesting" planned. Why would Lun leave so many mysteries to the point where there are plotholes?

I would hope that Lun has too much respect for his audience to just drop what he was planning because it got sick of it all. Like most of us, I hope that he has more in store (if he does, get rid of that damn FIN!) Honestly, this endless theorizing and speculation isn't satisfying for me. Though complete closure is unrealistic, MOST of our questions need to be answered by the end. Impossible has basically echoed my exact thoughts on this subject.

[EmperorJeramyu]

"Fin" doesn't necessarily eliminate the idea of a prequel...

Just throwing things out there.

[Strayed Wanderer]

I think he made it pretty clear in the basic ending that Rhue is hardly done with anything.

[Dr. Casey]

You know, we're kind of like Rhue, us Forerunners. We're trying to believe in more of a finish to the series despite the "Fin" and other hints at this being the end, and Rhue tried to believe in Serena's existence despite the blood on the pendant... both of us believing in an end, both of us perhaps being wrong. Maybe the Save point at the end of the game is misleading us like the voice in the Phantom's Edge mislead Rhue.

[Telephalsion]

either lun wanted to make a sequel, or he's just sloppy and left the end game save script in there.

[Wellsy]

You know, we're kind of like Rhue, us Forerunners. We're trying to believe in more of a finish to the series despite the "Fin" and other hints at this being the end, and Rhue tried to believe in Serena's existence despite the blood on the pendant... both of us believing in an end, both of us perhaps being wrong. Maybe the Save point at the end of the game is misleading us like the voice in the Phantom's Edge mislead Rhue.

Interesting, Dr. Casey. And Tele, if there is one thing Lun is not, it is sloppy. If the save point is a mistake, he wouldn't have left it in for 7 waves of beta testing. As far as a prequel, there are questions that have to be answered in the PRESENT, like Tetzel, the books, and the End of the Way. Personally, I think Lun is fucking with us. He HAS to know that Ep 6's ending doesn't really even approach satisfactory, and I believe he has too much respect for all of us to end it like this.

Or, hell, maybe those college classes really are too much and he just said, "Fuck coding, time to get my drink ON! " I don't know how you say a smiley but he did it.