More playthroughs, more theories

=SPOILER ALERT= This is for those people who have FINISHED E6, and wish to discuss theories and stuff. Do NOT use it as a help board.

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More playthroughs, more theories

Postby Toolophile » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:45 pm

I havnt posted in years here. I recently replayed the Way. It's still my favorite game of all time.

That said, I was reading through the theories as I tend to when I play the Way, and came across a post by fwacho where he nudgingly asked what the name of the last boss before the final plunge. Arctura.

Edit: What if rhue's sword is neither a shadow sword or illuminati, but something inbetween?

Before delving into the reaches before arriving at the Phantom's Edge, a man tells the story of the illuminati and how at one point the lord below became angry and the illuminati were never seen again. The illuminati, possibly having auras like many other non-living things in the way, could have been absorbed in the shadow swords. What you fight just before the end of dream estrana could be the aura of the illuminati the phantom slasher absorbed.

We know that Gaius has the ability to appear within dream estrana. I also believe he can single handedly control the auras within the sword to direct rhue. Hense when rhue insinuates that everyone else knows what's going on in dream estrana, but he does not. It also explains why Midian seems to guide Rhue towards the phantom's edge for some odd reason, without really knowing what's inside.

What I found even more interesting this most recent playthrough, is how neither the phantom slasher nor Gaius seems to have rhue's interests in mind. They combat for rhue's cooperation for the sole purpose of reaching their own agenda. Traziun seems to be rhue's only real friend in the end.

I also gave some thought as to what would happen in the way after episode 6. Gaius gets what he wants in the true ending. There are shadow swords still out there. The guided are warring amongst each other, Kalmar is dead, estrana is in ruins, key characters are still alive. I think the way would be plunged (No pun intended) into a fullscale war. If I were any good with RM2k anymore I was kind of getting a hard-on for making a fangame called "The War of the Way." But alas, im too old for that shit. ;)

Im sure most of this isn't new and veterans will have a bone to pick at all of this. haha. Sorry if I've repeated something you've read before.

Thanks again Lun for the greatest story ever told.
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Re: More playthroughs, more theories

Postby Sage Of The Wise » Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:42 am

The idea that the Illuminati are the shadow swords is pretty much assumed at this point. Pretty much, there were Illuminati, but they were corrupted in the blast that destroyed Janwen, which made them what are now called Shadow Swords. What makes Gaius so special is he has the only uncorrupted Illuminati. Its not 100%, but we have so much more evidence backing this up compared to most theories and so many theories rely on this one we pretty much have to assume its true or everything else we've come up with is also wrong. (kinda exaggerated but you get the point).

As for Gaius controlling the people in dream estrana to direct Rhue, its possible. We're never really given a reason why anyone wants to go to the tower beyond someone else telling them what they want is in there.
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Re: More playthroughs, more theories

Postby Kcrazy » Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:34 pm

Yeah pretty much, shadow sword = corrupted illuminati. Gaius having a non corrupted makes sense as well, since he is most likely Kalmar's Perfect Blade.

Dream Estrana is pretty much a mystery that we'll never completely solve. I've asked the question of wether or not Dream Estrana is unique to Rhue's sword or a shared universe of all the swords. And if it is unique, do other swords have there own dream worlds. But we'll probably never know for sure. I also wondered what the shadow creatures in Dream Estrana were, and what they represent, my theory was they were absorded auras from other shadow swords.
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Re: More playthroughs, more theories

Postby Impossible » Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:09 pm

I'm really out of the loop on everything, what's the evidence Sage was talking about for all this, and for Gaius having an uncorrupted Illuminati?
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Re: More playthroughs, more theories

Postby Debacle » Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:08 pm

I was to say the same thing about Gaius.
I can't remember any part pointing for sure his sword is even an Illuminati.
It could be argued that his attacks are light-based, which really doesn't prove anything;
That Rhue couldn't attack the Harbringer, which could point either to Phantom Slasher not wanting to attack another Illuminati or just proctecting a man it considered of justice;
Although I can't say how would Gaius destroy the Phantom Slasher without having a more powerful weapon, which should be the final Illuminati.
Would Kalmar just let his underling have the last sword of justice while he keeps a "mere" corrupted one?

I remember an interesting theory in this forums suggesting that Tetzel had the last Illuminati, so he managed to be alive all this time - maybe without the need to collect auras, since it appears to be a shadow sword exclusive need - and possibly being the person "Traziun's mother" was talking about, and not Kalmar or the Mimic.
Now - thinking about what she said, it would tie with Kalmar finding a way to avoid absorving more auras if he were secluded in his sky fort and just sent someone else do his perfect justice. But then it maybe wouldn't - because he himself goes down to kill the blood lyn traitors and probably absorbs their auras; And he already has an army of blood lyn under his power, so why the need for the perfect tool to do his justice?
Maybe the whole blood lyn are sort of unknowing candidates for holding the then last Illuminati?

Sorry for the confusing sprouting of ideas...
Anyway, last two:

We can't say much about each sword having a dream world, but taking Kalmar's death into consideration we could tell their absortion effects are similar. Traziun absorbed his father's aura and then had his memories; and there was something Kalmar said about the two becoming one.

I don't think I saw this being discussed before, but how Kalmar does his Blana Sera trick? Is his sword involved and does it help in tricking the "too many auras" problem?
I mean, all the out of body experiences (aura absortion, Blana Sera, Jopaga's formula) are connected by their sound effects.
So his Blana Sera technique might be some sort of aura control.

I apologize for any grammar mistake I most certainly did. I hope I didn't.
Last edited by Debacle on Sun Nov 08, 2009 6:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: More playthroughs, more theories

Postby Kcrazy » Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:42 am

Impossible wrote:I'm really out of the loop on everything, what's the evidence Sage was talking about for all this, and for Gaius having an uncorrupted Illuminati?


The strongest point I think is when Rhue is pushed away when he attacks Gaius.
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Re: More playthroughs, more theories

Postby Toolophile » Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:08 pm

Here's why I think Rhue's sword is not merely a corrupted illuminati, but different from both the illuminati and shadowswords.

A few pieces of evidence:
1)Within his sword are creatures representative of both a shadow sword, and an illuminati.
2)Every shadow sword has a black figure representative of that sword. As far as we know, only Rhue's kills people. What would you get if you mixed that shadow, with an illuminati's desire for justice?
3)Gaius, as far as we know, does not hunt the other shadow swords, nor does he hunt their wielders.
4)Rhue can use both shadow sword, and illuminati attack auras.
5)Shadow sword wielders all end up commiting suicide. Some would explain this by Rhue being venge, or some sort of half demon child of the lord below.. mimic.. etc.. But I think just like Gaius' illuminati protects him from harm, so does the illuminati side of Rhue's sword.
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Re: More playthroughs, more theories

Postby Sage Of The Wise » Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:09 pm

Ok, so maybe Gaius having the uncorrupted Illuminati isn't as agreed upon as I thought, ignore that part then.

Here's why I think Rhue's sword is not merely a corrupted illuminati, but different from both the illuminati and shadowswords.

A few pieces of evidence:
1)Within his sword are creatures representative of both a shadow sword, and an illuminati.
2)Every shadow sword has a black figure representative of that sword. As far as we know, only Rhue's kills people. What would you get if you mixed that shadow, with an illuminati's desire for justice?
3)Gaius, as far as we know, does not hunt the other shadow swords, nor does he hunt their wielders.
4)Rhue can use both shadow sword, and illuminati attack auras.
5)Shadow sword wielders all end up commiting suicide. Some would explain this by Rhue being venge, or some sort of half demon child of the lord below.. mimic.. etc.. But I think just like Gaius' illuminati protects him from harm, so does the illuminati side of Rhue's sword.


Your first point where the shadow sword = corrupted illuminati theory comes from. It would imply that every shadow sword had representatives of a shadow sword and illuminati because that's what they are. As for your second point, I think it was the red haired women who talked about how some shadow swords liked to kill, while others were more passive. As for your third point, I don't think any of us can really begin to explain Gauis's actions. The fourth point is explained by the shadow sword = corrupted illuminati theory. For the fifth point, we just don't have enough information on that, so I dunno.
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Re: More playthroughs, more theories

Postby Kcrazy » Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:22 pm

The only problem with the shadow swords equal corrupted illuminati theory to me is that there are only three shadow swords in the game, and there were seven illumiati mention, and it was implied that those were just a few. I know they all don't have to appear, but three seems rather small amount.
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Re: More playthroughs, more theories

Postby Sage Of The Wise » Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:11 pm

Well, we don't ever see sword that's unquestionably an illuminati the entire game, but that doesn't mean there aren't any. Whether something actually appears in the game doesn't really prove anything.
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Re: More playthroughs, more theories

Postby Kcrazy » Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:34 pm

Right but since the game is the source material, it has to show up there to really be canon. I still think his sword is a corrupted illuminati and Gauis has the non corrupted one, but just weird that theres only three shadow sword, they seem to have a way to influence events in the story.
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Re: More playthroughs, more theories

Postby War » Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:38 am

I do believe that illuminati = shadow sword, but I don't believe that a shadow sword is a corrupt illuminati. Justice is very veague, it could just be what the sword believe justice to be. Also some thoughts about Gauis, I think people are giving him a little bit to much credit, there is also a chance he himself did some of the killings the Phantom Slasher did. If you remember back to the scene in Ep2 where Rhue find the people buried and then Gauis is found not to far away? There is also the known killing of the gang leader(I forget the name) that Gauis does. As for what Gauis does to Rhue as the end? I don't know maybe figured out Rhu'es sword was going into overload and that is why the phantom slasher was made. He had adsorb so many people auras that it created a type of split persona in the sword.
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